HID vs. SSCP7-C

lronchef · Oct 1, 2008

I happened to be browsing DX for several hours today after being diverted there reading some thread here about a 2 mode aurora light with a sscp7-c in it boasting 900 lumens.

Anyway, after looking at all the p7-c lights they have, showing the lumen rating at 900 (so at least 800ish out the front, right?), I decided to see if DX had any HID lights..and sure enough, they did. THey have a nice little light for $4xx that gets 530 lumens..and then I started wondering..."how do the 530 lumens translate to output into how the 900 lumen output of a led light?"

I guess what I"m getting at, is what are the differences in HID output vs. LED output and how they're represented in lumens?

I mean, I'm assuming that 530 lumen output from the HID light casts a much stronger, different color beam further than the P7 can do at 900 lumens..because hey, it's an HID! Or am I assuming wrong?

Enlighten me ye wise ones.

Gunner12 · Oct 1, 2008

The HID has a smaller emission source, so with the same sized reflector, the HID should have more throw.

KrisP · Oct 1, 2008

The C bin P7 LED was originally rated at 740-900lm but was changed shortly after to 700-800lm. That rating is at the LED at full power anyway, those lights will have losses via the reflector and lens. They are also not powering it enough to make maximum lumens. Basically, it won't give anywhere near 900lm out the front.

kurni · Oct 1, 2008

KrisP said:
The C bin P7 LED was originally rated at 740-900lm but was changed shortly after to 700-800lm. That rating is at the LED at full power anyway, those lights will have losses via the reflector and lens. They are also not powering it enough to make maximum lumens. Basically, it won't give anywhere near 900lm out the front.

+1

I wish I could do something to prevent people believing 700-900lm claim :sigh: I blame SSC.

offroadcmpr · Oct 2, 2008

I believe a good estimate (or at least it used to be) for the percentage of light output lost from the emitter to the front of the light is around 30%. So even if it was at full power, it would still get 600 lumens or so at the max out the front.

PhantomPhoton · Oct 2, 2008

I dont think any of those DX P7 lights drive the LED to spec, I'd guestimate they maybe put out 400-500 lumens. The P7 still is no contender in output against HIDs in the 20+ watt range. The P7 driven properly is capaible in beating the smaller WA Solarc 10W HIDs in total output... but still not in throw.

Patriot · Oct 2, 2008

Besides the fact that DX P7 lights don't produce anywhere near 800 lumens out the front, more like half of that, it's really not a lumen issue in the first place. Just like a 100W light bulb doesn't throw very well even though it's about 1800 lumens. Being a 4 die LED, the P7 has a rather large emission area which isn't conducive to throw. A true 10W HID with smooth reflector will out throw any P7. A single Cree Q5 or R2 married to a good reflector like in the DBS or Spear will give much better throw performance than the P7 although still not as good as the HID. In fact, the only thing that gives lower wattage HID's a run for their money is LED's mounted behind aspheric lenses.

yellow · Oct 2, 2008

both "porblems" have been mentionned:

1st:
there is no P7 light by now that offers a deep reflector to focus more than just a fraction of the emitted light --> most light is "wasted" as flood in short range

2nd:
the claims are a joke + the lights are not driven hard. Anything more than 500 lumen is Scienece-Fiction (if it is even that!!!). Then they are mostly direct-driven
Good mods possibly surpass this, but the cheap makes ...

PS: there are no 30% losses, just the "ususal" 15-20, as with any means of focusing + front lens. The lights are just not driven hard.
but the MC-Es are out now. Lets have a look if the better way of driving emitters (= in series) comes over 600 Lumen. At least there are SMALL and WORKING drivers available.

woodrow · Oct 2, 2008

I still think my 500 (bulb) lumen 10 watt hid was brighter (25%) than my P7 longthrow. A 24-35w hid puts out several times as much light.

offroadcmpr · Oct 2, 2008

yellow said:
PS: there are no 30% losses, just the "ususal" 15-20, as with any means of focusing + front lens.

I have not been on the board for a while, so the last time I was on every one was throwing around the 30% losses from the lens and reflector. I guess things have changed, or we have found a more accurate number.
:thumbsup:

seattlite · Oct 4, 2008

lronchef said:
I happened to be browsing DX for several hours today after being diverted there reading some thread here about a 2 mode aurora light with a sscp7-c in it boasting 900 lumens.

Anyway, after looking at all the p7-c lights they have, showing the lumen rating at 900 (so at least 800ish out the front, right?), I decided to see if DX had any HID lights..and sure enough, they did. THey have a nice little light for $4xx that gets 530 lumens..and then I started wondering..."how do the 530 lumens translate to output into how the 900 lumen output of a led light?"

I guess what I"m getting at, is what are the differences in HID output vs. LED output and how they're represented in lumens?

I mean, I'm assuming that 530 lumen output from the HID light casts a much stronger, different color beam further than the P7 can do at 900 lumens..because hey, it's an HID! Or am I assuming wrong?

Enlighten me ye wise ones.

How about some beamshots to decide which one has more light output...HID vs Deal Extreme MTE P7:

MTE P7, Direct Drive 18650 P7:

Microfire Warrior II, 24W HID:

Nos · Oct 4, 2008

lol

a 10w bargain LED torch VS a 24w high quality HID :poof:

tobjectpascal · Oct 20, 2008

Considering it's 24w not a 10w HID vs an SSC P7.

I'd like to know this, how many amps is the MTE pulling? I bet it's only around 3 amps due to the resistor.

My Aurora DD pulls 3.9 almost 4 amps from a fresh 18650 battery which is very very bright.

So how does a 10W HID compare to a fully driven P7? .

Secondly, if you look at the picture, the P7 MTE actually illuminates the surrounding area better

The trees on the right are more lit up.
The fence below is more lit up
I can see farther up the tree than the HID

Because it's so floody, i'd love to see a Smooth Reflector on an SSC DD vs a 10W Hid, that would be more of a fair test.

Because those pictures are just not a comparison, it's like a V6 as standard Vs V8 SuperCharged.

StefanFS · Oct 21, 2008

An SSC P7 C/D bin emitter driven at spec will throw light as well as the better CREE throwers like Dereelight DBS or Raidfire Spear in for example a Maglite with stock smooth reflector. 250 meters are no problem with four times the hotspot compared to the CREE throwers.
High power HID lights are in a totally different class, both techically speaking and economically.

A P7 Mag is a cost effective and pleasant solution.

HID vs. SSCP7-C

lronchef

Newly Enlightened

Gunner12

Flashaholic

KrisP

Enlightened

kurni

Enlightened

offroadcmpr

Enlightened

PhantomPhoton

Flashlight Enthusiast

Patriot

Flashaholic

yellow

Flashlight Enthusiast

woodrow

Flashlight Enthusiast

offroadcmpr

Enlightened

seattlite

Enlightened

Nos

Enlightened

tobjectpascal

Banned

StefanFS

Flashlight Enthusiast

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