Green Laser Hits Police Chopper Pilot In Eye
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Jamesmark72
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2007
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At that distance, i would think it would have gotten more than just one eye.
You know, these stories bother me.
There have been about a dozen so far this year with variations on the green laser / police helicopter / commercial airliner etc and they all have one thing in common; a near-superhuman feat of aiming a laser with startlingly low beam divergence.
Consider: The landing velocity of a 747 with full flaps & slats deployed is around 125mph. The approach speed is higher. An airliner's cabin is fairly high up on the fuselage, with windows sloping upwards, allowing little visibility below the plane of the nose.
I personally cannot keep a dot from a laser steady once the distance exceeds 20 metres. To keep a laser trained on a moving target that is at least 300 metres away and moving at sixty metres per second or more is tricky to say the least.
And then we come to divergence. A mass-produced pointer is not a lab laser and the collimation is generally poor; certainly, it is unlikely to be good enough to maintain a 1cm dot over a third of a kilometre - which is what you'd need to hit the pilot in one eye - even assuming you can somehow bend the beam into the cockpit.
Helicopters are a bit different of course, and there can be little debate on the wisdom of pointing a laser at a hovering device containing trained observers, with detection equipment that functions in virtually every wavelength.
I'm in no way condoning the actions of these fools, by the way - I subscribe to the CPF wisdom of keeping your dangerous toys indoors. But the lack of actual science in these reports is surely one of the factors that's led to the scenarios we have in Australia and the USA.
And as a last thought - how come we never see any reports from actual passengers?
There have been about a dozen so far this year with variations on the green laser / police helicopter / commercial airliner etc and they all have one thing in common; a near-superhuman feat of aiming a laser with startlingly low beam divergence.
Consider: The landing velocity of a 747 with full flaps & slats deployed is around 125mph. The approach speed is higher. An airliner's cabin is fairly high up on the fuselage, with windows sloping upwards, allowing little visibility below the plane of the nose.
I personally cannot keep a dot from a laser steady once the distance exceeds 20 metres. To keep a laser trained on a moving target that is at least 300 metres away and moving at sixty metres per second or more is tricky to say the least.
And then we come to divergence. A mass-produced pointer is not a lab laser and the collimation is generally poor; certainly, it is unlikely to be good enough to maintain a 1cm dot over a third of a kilometre - which is what you'd need to hit the pilot in one eye - even assuming you can somehow bend the beam into the cockpit.
Helicopters are a bit different of course, and there can be little debate on the wisdom of pointing a laser at a hovering device containing trained observers, with detection equipment that functions in virtually every wavelength.
I'm in no way condoning the actions of these fools, by the way - I subscribe to the CPF wisdom of keeping your dangerous toys indoors. But the lack of actual science in these reports is surely one of the factors that's led to the scenarios we have in Australia and the USA.
And as a last thought - how come we never see any reports from actual passengers?
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I have to agree. I really think some of these are overly exaggerated, if not outright fabricated. Think of how challenging it would be to try to "keep the dot" on a moving object several thousand feet away. If any of you has a laser pointer, just try it on something *stationary* like the top of a lamp post or something. I bet none of use can do it. I'm in no way condoning these actions by the way but I think we need to start asking about the feasibility of some of these reported feats.
The first thing I want to say is that if any knuckle head is intentionally shinning a laser at aircraft he ought to spend some time in jail. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable.
It does worry me that this seems to be happening so often and there never seems to be any follow up reporting about these actions. With regards to a person having to track or follow and aircraft for a pilot to perceive that they've been hit in the eye, I don't think that's valid. All it takes is for the laser spot to pass over the eye in one instant, like a camera flash. I can easily see where it would be possible for the perception of one eye to be hit depending on the angle. The nose could block it from entering the second eye, only half of the beam might have crossed the face and so on. The beam doesn't have to be a 1cm in order to get one eye flashed. At a 1000 yards a good green laser will be close to a foot in diameter and possibly much larger for lasers with poorer collimation or at greater distance.
Obviously a beam that has been spread out that far, especially in the case of a generic laser pointer really isn't going to be dangerous to the eye but it could be argued that being dazzled even for a second or two poses a risk to pilots. While I agree that the effects may be exaggerated, these types of cases still have to be dealt strongly otherwise plenty more foolish punks would be out at night lighting up aircraft with a variety of lasers. I don't see where the media or police have any option but to expose and punish these guys to the full extent. That said, I would hate to see a hobbyist wrongly accused for simply shinning one into the sky. If a pilot simply sees a green beam in the air and says that it came close or frightened him, it's going to be the pilots testimony against the hobbyist. I don't think there is any doubt who authorities would side with, especially if the alleged victim happened to be the authorities.
I guess we should be thankful that the laws are enforced so that we don't have politicians trying harder to ban lasers. It would be a shame to see their legal use lost as the result of an ignorance frenzy.
It does worry me that this seems to be happening so often and there never seems to be any follow up reporting about these actions. With regards to a person having to track or follow and aircraft for a pilot to perceive that they've been hit in the eye, I don't think that's valid. All it takes is for the laser spot to pass over the eye in one instant, like a camera flash. I can easily see where it would be possible for the perception of one eye to be hit depending on the angle. The nose could block it from entering the second eye, only half of the beam might have crossed the face and so on. The beam doesn't have to be a 1cm in order to get one eye flashed. At a 1000 yards a good green laser will be close to a foot in diameter and possibly much larger for lasers with poorer collimation or at greater distance.
Obviously a beam that has been spread out that far, especially in the case of a generic laser pointer really isn't going to be dangerous to the eye but it could be argued that being dazzled even for a second or two poses a risk to pilots. While I agree that the effects may be exaggerated, these types of cases still have to be dealt strongly otherwise plenty more foolish punks would be out at night lighting up aircraft with a variety of lasers. I don't see where the media or police have any option but to expose and punish these guys to the full extent. That said, I would hate to see a hobbyist wrongly accused for simply shinning one into the sky. If a pilot simply sees a green beam in the air and says that it came close or frightened him, it's going to be the pilots testimony against the hobbyist. I don't think there is any doubt who authorities would side with, especially if the alleged victim happened to be the authorities.
I guess we should be thankful that the laws are enforced so that we don't have politicians trying harder to ban lasers. It would be a shame to see their legal use lost as the result of an ignorance frenzy.
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TITAN1833
Flashlight Enthusiast
Firstly it was by sheer pot luck he hit the pilot in the eye he should not be commended in anyway for that, he is no sharp shooter.
secondly lets hope he has no luck escaping a term in jail,that way he will have time to address the error of his ways.
thirdly ban him for life from ever owning any light emitting device,even hi powered flashlights.
and last,there! got the message knuckle head? whoever you are.
secondly lets hope he has no luck escaping a term in jail,that way he will have time to address the error of his ways.
thirdly ban him for life from ever owning any light emitting device,even hi powered flashlights.
and last,there! got the message knuckle head? whoever you are.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.
These reports tend to be of the flimsiest variety, seldom citing details and perpetuating the myth that a handheld device can do anything up to and including blowing up a planet.*
I'd like to see a report on this - surely it generates enough column inches for an in-depth investigation? I'd even settle for Mythbusters.
*If I'm mistaken though, please let me know where I can buy one...
I think you're looking for the [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Elunium PU36 Explosive Space Modulator[/FONT], (Marvin the Martian Manufacturing Inc.)
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]"About the earth, I'm going to blow it up. It obstructs my view of Venus."
[/FONT]
Mythbusters exposure about this subject does worry me a little though...
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Lightraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,170
I don't see the thread I responded to from California, but it was the same deal.
Just read the guy was sentenced to 2 years. Girlfriend sentenced to 18 months. Plenty of time to think of more appropriate ways for a man and woman to amuse themselves.
Just read the guy was sentenced to 2 years. Girlfriend sentenced to 18 months. Plenty of time to think of more appropriate ways for a man and woman to amuse themselves.
The windows are tinted and they're in a bright illuminated room, while the pilot is in a dark cockpit. I've got a video of a helicopter being hit by a laser. I"ll upload it in a couple of hours.
Video shows laser pointer being shone at helicopter (from within chopper)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nUpmLbkzyEI&fmt=18
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nUpmLbkzyEI&fmt=18
CajunJosh
Newly Enlightened
They actually had a similar case here in Austin. Problem is that the crew of our PD and Starflight helicopters wear night vision goggles and when you combine the two you get a nasty headache.
