Alternative light sources

Guy's Dropper

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I know that flashlights have been made using incandescent, HID, LED and even halogen bulbs. I was just wondering if there are any other viable light sources for flashlights, like sodium or florescent bulbs. I do have a battery operated(6AA) UV light that uses a miniature fluorescent-looking UV tube. I'm not sure it uses the same power as a normal fluorescent tube though.
 

thunderlight

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Recently went to an astronomy talk where the speaker demonstrated the pickle-light. Run the current through a pickle and it produces "yellow photons", i.e., the sodium bands in the corresponding spectrum due to the level of salt in the pickle. [Or something like that.] The bulb is a renewable resource and edible, although nobody volunteered to taste it.
Also produces a greenish yellow tint.
 

LukeA

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Recently went to an astronomy talk where the speaker demonstrated the pickle-light. Run the current through a pickle and it produces "yellow photons", i.e., the sodium bands in the corresponding spectrum due to the level of salt in the pickle. [Or something like that.] The bulb is a renewable resource and edible, although nobody volunteered to taste it.
Also produces a greenish yellow tint.

What's the lm/W?????????

:laughing:
 

artec540

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I know that flashlights have been made using incandescent, HID, LED and even halogen bulbs. I was just wondering if there are any other viable light sources for flashlights, like sodium or florescent bulbs. I do have a battery operated(6AA) UV light that uses a miniature fluorescent-looking UV tube. I'm not sure it uses the same power as a normal fluorescent tube though.

I'm certainly no expert, but it's my understanding that HID and fluorescent lights are essentially the same thing in that they both use electricity to make a gas fluoresce. In flashlights they are called HID and in cars they are commonly called Xenon. HID bulbs are designed to have a small light source, give a focused light and throw a beam, while fluorescent lights are intended to illuminate an area. Sodium lights are fluorescent, too, but because they use a sodium based gas, they have that orange color.

Halogen bulbs are incandescent but they run much hotter than conventional bulbs' filaments and therefore give off more light. They are able to run so hot because the envelope is very heat-resistant quartz glass and the gas in the bulb is halogen based. They used to be called quartz iodine when they first came out and iodine, like chlorine, is a halogen (I don't know what others there are).

So we're really down to those two and LEDs. I don't know of any others.
 

firefly99

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I'm certainly no expert, but it's my understanding that HID and fluorescent lights are essentially the same thing in that they both use electricity to make a gas fluoresce. In flashlights they are called HID and in cars they are commonly called Xenon. HID bulbs are designed to have a small light source, give a focused light and throw a beam, while fluorescent lights are intended to illuminate an area. Sodium lights are fluorescent, too, but because they use a sodium based gas, they have that orange color.

Halogen bulbs are incandescent but they run much hotter than conventional bulbs' filaments and therefore give off more light. They are able to run so hot because the envelope is very heat-resistant quartz glass and the gas in the bulb is halogen based. They used to be called quartz iodine when they first came out and iodine, like chlorine, is a halogen (I don't know what others there are).

So we're really down to those two and LEDs. I don't know of any others.
You sure does not sound like an expert. Thank you for the MISINFORMATION.
 

Marduke

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Which one of artec540s comments is incorrect? I am not disputing one way or another, just searching for the truth.


HID are xenon arc, which are not the same as xenon filament bulbs. Low pressure sodium lights are also not fluorescent.

Fluorescent lights use electricity to excite mercury vapor, which in turn produces UV light, which in turn reacts with a phosphor layer.

LED's are actually closer to fluorescent lights than either HID, xenon, or sodium lights.
 

mdocod

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HID is light emitted from an arc of electricity that is maintained between an anode and cathode. There are no phosphors involved here as there are in fluorescent lights. The color temperature is determined by a few factors that I do not entirely understand so I'm not going to go there. (all I know is it has something to do with materials used in construction and a proper chemical balance)

The word Xenon is commonly thrown around as a buzz word. Xenon is a heavy fill gas used in many types of bulbs, both arc and incan. Often times, incan bulbs that are "xenon filled," are not purely filled with just xenon (in fact, that's probably pretty rare), the xenon is in addition to various halogens and they can work together to further improve bulb life. Xenon having a high atomic weight acts as a barrier that reduces the amount of tungsten evaporating from the surface of the filament.

Sodium is a form of HID or arc lamp. Again, no phosphors involved that I am aware of.

Being able to focus many arc lamps into a tight beam is more of a byproduct of the design, rather than their intended use. There are far more arc lamps in the world in use as overhead flood lighting than there are in spotlights. Next time you are in home depot, look up.

The temperature that a bulb runs at has little to nothing to do with whether or not it has a halogen fill or not. The halogens in the fill gas helps to redeposit evaporated tungsten back on to the filament, which increase lamp life, and at the same time helps keep the envelope clear (less tungsten deposits on the envelope). If you were to compare a 100W long life halogen bulb to a 100W typical household bulb (argon filled $0.30 bulb), both would be generating about the same amount of heat.

As marduke said, the closest thing to a fluorescent is a white LED. The LED itself is not actually emitting white light, they are typically blue emitters, that excite carefully selected phosphors to produce an average output that is close to "white."

Eric

I'm certainly no expert, but it's my understanding that HID and fluorescent lights are essentially the same thing in that they both use electricity to make a gas fluoresce. In flashlights they are called HID and in cars they are commonly called Xenon. HID bulbs are designed to have a small light source, give a focused light and throw a beam, while fluorescent lights are intended to illuminate an area. Sodium lights are fluorescent, too, but because they use a sodium based gas, they have that orange color.

Halogen bulbs are incandescent but they run much hotter than conventional bulbs' filaments and therefore give off more light. They are able to run so hot because the envelope is very heat-resistant quartz glass and the gas in the bulb is halogen based. They used to be called quartz iodine when they first came out and iodine, like chlorine, is a halogen (I don't know what others there are).

So we're really down to those two and LEDs. I don't know of any others.
 

artec540

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HID is light emitted from an arc of electricity that is maintained between an anode and cathode. There are no phosphors involved here as there are in fluorescent lights. The color temperature is determined by a few factors that I do not entirely understand so I'm not going to go there. (all I know is it has something to do with materials used in construction and a proper chemical balance)

The word Xenon is commonly thrown around as a buzz word. Xenon is a heavy fill gas used in many types of bulbs, both arc and incan. Often times, incan bulbs that are "xenon filled," are not purely filled with just xenon (in fact, that's probably pretty rare), the xenon is in addition to various halogens and they can work together to further improve bulb life. Xenon having a high atomic weight acts as a barrier that reduces the amount of tungsten evaporating from the surface of the filament.

Sodium is a form of HID or arc lamp. Again, no phosphors involved that I am aware of.

Being able to focus many arc lamps into a tight beam is more of a byproduct of the design, rather than their intended use. There are far more arc lamps in the world in use as overhead flood lighting than there are in spotlights. Next time you are in home depot, look up.

The temperature that a bulb runs at has little to nothing to do with whether or not it has a halogen fill or not. The halogens in the fill gas helps to redeposit evaporated tungsten back on to the filament, which increase lamp life, and at the same time helps keep the envelope clear (less tungsten deposits on the envelope). If you were to compare a 100W long life halogen bulb to a 100W typical household bulb (argon filled $0.30 bulb), both would be generating about the same amount of heat.

As marduke said, the closest thing to a fluorescent is a white LED. The LED itself is not actually emitting white light, they are typically blue emitters, that excite carefully selected phosphors to produce an average output that is close to "white."

Eric

Now I feel all defensive!

In response to firefly99's friendly response, I not only said I was no expert, I also said that "it's my understanding that......" I don't think that is handing out misinformation. I'm always glad to learn and I'm happy to be corrected where my understanding was wrong.

I was wrong about sodium lights and HID being fluorescent....... I stand corrected. My dictionary says fluorescence is the process of "radiation being taken in and given out in the form or light". Aren't there other kinds of fluorescent lights besides mercury vapor? Now that I think about it, ordinary street lights, as well as sodium street lights, are much the same shape and size as each other, and very different in shape from ordinary fluorescent lights. What are they?

I remember seeing TV programs about deep sea fish that fluoresce to attract prey....... is that true fluorescence or something else? Even fish like flashlights!

Cars' Xenon headlamps are HID, like flashlights, but I've seen a lot of after-market bulbs that are labeled xenon-this and xenon-that but you only have to look at them to see that they are incandescent.

Halogen bulbs are also incandescent and give out more light because they run hotter. I remember now about the halogen gas in the bulb preventing the evaporated filament tungsten being deposited on the inside of the glass, gradually reducing the output.......but it had nothing to do with the temperature, so I'm corrected there, too.

The filaments are able to run hotter because the quartz glass is more heat-resistant than conventional bulb envelopes. I remember when they first appeared, in Europe, in the early '60s, they were often called quartz-iodine ......they had even more impact that xenons do now, because they weren't self-leveling except on the big Citroens. I don't know what halogen gas they use now...... still iodine?

So, to revert to the original topic, the light sources are incandescent, HID, fluorescent and LED. Are there any others? And are there any fluorescent flashlights? Do I remember seeing fluorescent lanterns?
 

Marduke

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I think you are confusing the dictionary meaning of "fluorescence" and "fluorescent lighting", which uses layer of phosphor on the inside of the tube to produce the light you see, not the excited gas directly.

Just because something glows doesn't make it a fluorescent light.
 

artec540

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I think you are confusing the dictionary meaning of "fluorescence" and "fluorescent lighting", which uses layer of phosphor on the inside of the tube to produce the light you see, not the excited gas directly.

Just because something glows doesn't make it a fluorescent light.

OK, I get the difference. A narrower definition of the word used to describe the lighting type.
 

qwertyydude

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One clarification and physics lesson is required here about incandescents. Temperature and heat are two different measurements. A 100w halogen and 100w long life bulb actually produce different amounts of heat. It goes along with efficiency, according to wikipedia a 100w incandescent produces 17.5 l/w and 100w halogen 24 l/w, which give a 37% increase in light output. So instead of just getting wasted as heat some of the energy leaves as light. I forget how much energy it takes to excite a photon but that escaping photon does not translate into heating the bulb. So the fact that the halogen filament burns at hotter temperature means it produces less heat because more energy is converted to light.
 

HKJ

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So the fact that the halogen filament burns at hotter temperature means it produces less heat because more energy is converted to light.

The temperature is everything to incan, a high temperature gives a "high" efficiency and a short lifetime. Then a halogen is added to improve the lifetime.
 
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