Rechargeable CR123's are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

It seems that every little device I have is crying out "feed me lithium batteries!!". I just got a Nikon coolpix880 digital cam and it uses the 2cr5 6V lithium. I was looking for other makers of rechargeable 2cr5's when I came across this site in the UK.
http://www.2cr5.co.uk/start_shop.html

Has anyone tried these before for using in a surefire? They are Ni-MH.

Meanwhile, I decided to get a cheap battery (US$5 instead of US $6-7) for the digicam and got a Tekcell 2cr5.

I took it out of the box and put it in the camera and it died within 1 minute! Has anyone else had bad experiences with Tekcell?
(123's?). Thats $5 down the drain. Hope this saves others from buying them.

Sean

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

I sent an email off to Quest to see if they are avaiable everywhere or what the deal is with these batteries. I didn't see them listed on their site, but they could be burried somewhere.
http://www.questbatteries.com/

Brock

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

I just spoke with Thomas-Distributing (one of the larger online Quest retailers) and they state that the Quest in Europe is not the same Quest that makes the batteries that are available in the US. Whether that's just a "line" or not, I'm not sure.

When I further questioned whether or not they would be inquiring about the rech. 123's, they said they had been in negotiations, but as yet, nothing had been resolved.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Interesting.

I emailed the company to see what the miliamp rating of these cells are.

I wouldn't get you your hopes up though.

A surefire consumes a lithium CR123 at a 1C rate with the lithium batteries being rated at about 1300-1400 mah, with a c/5 rate. With almost any rechargeable battery they don't like such high discharge rates. So say they were a 1000mah at c/5, with the high discharge rate, you could probably expect a half the runtime compared to lithium's. With the big drawback of surefire's now being short runtimes, cutting them in half again would probably only be acceptable for occasional users or say a surefire that stays around the house.

With high end nihm AA's being around 1600mah I'd say for something half the size 1000mah is about all I'd expect but I will post what the actual spec is if the company responds.

Another thing to keep in mind might be that 4 of these batteries and a charger will run you over $100 US (probably closer to $120+ with shipping). So you also might look strait into a rechargeable surefire with more common rechargeable batteries and better runtimes.

Interesting though, as the technology comes along these are certainly something to keep a eye on.

Todd

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

I've emailed a few Li-ion manufacturers asking if they have a Li-ion replacement for DL123As. The replys I've got have said that they only deal with companies wanting a specifically designed battery and charger for their application.

Therefore SureFire would have to want to contact such a company and develop a battery...

Due to the high price of Li-ion, I doubt if it'd be viable for SureFire to invest at this stage. Shame.

All I want is a cheaper (long term) way of powering my SureFires. If only I had money to invest in such an idea...

Al

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Li-on's would be sweet, but right now I think they would have some serious drawbacks for use in a duty light.

As I understand it charging lion's is extremly touchy needing complex circuits and chargers. This not only requires a exremely expensive charger (probably 2-3X the cost of a nimh charger). But are probably very very touchy about being recharged at cold tempuratures. I know nimh/nicad don't like being recharged under freezing for a slow charge and 60deg F for a fast charge. Doing so limits usefull life at least according to duracell/energizers data sheets.

However they certainly could provide as much capacity as the lithiums in the same sized package I would think, maybe even more.

I would think right now your best bet for making a surefire economical to use is to use the rechargeable units. Yes they are expensive to start and they are quite a bit larger for the powerful units but I would guess that if you took say a 6R which is what $120 mail order and $160 retail? with nicad and a pretty dumb charger and made it lion cells with a smart rapid charger you would easily double if not triple the cost of the light. I'm not sure too many people would pay $300+ for a 6R, even if it had more output and fit in a smaller package.

But the price will come down as they are more and more common, even the prices of nimh has come way down over the past year or two, and nicad's can be had dirt cheap now.

Having watched the industry slowly crawl from nicad to nimh in the last 5 years or so, and many companies still use nicad (it's getting cheaper all the time to use them) I would guess it will be a good 5 years more before lithium rechargeables hit the broad market.

However what really annoys me with companies, and I could add Surefire to this list is they still use low capacity nicad's for their batteries when much better nicad's are available. There are 2800mah nicad's available which would aprox. double the runtime of a 9N, but as far as I know surefire is still using 1400mah outdated weak batteries. I can only think the reason is because it's cheaper than reconfiguring their chargers and buying the higher capacity cells.

Even the brand new model of the 9AN still specs at 40min at 140 lumens, the same as my 9N did 4 years ago. They could be getting ~80 minutes out of them by just using hi-cap nicad's.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

I would also think rechargable 123's wouldn't last long in Surefires. If I had to guess I would say 30 minutes tops, compared to 60 min in lithium 123's. My biggest concern is what voltage they will be running at.

Either way here is what I got from the US Quest (Harding Energy) battery maker

>
>The NIMH 123 is something we are currently
>engineering, but unfortunately,it is not
>available now. I would expect it by the
>end of the year.
>
>Thanks for the inquiry. Sorry of the
>delay in our response.
>
>Heidi Vitek
>Customer Service
>[email protected]
>


Brock

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

I got a email back from them today, but the person who emailed me didn't know the capacity but said he would check into it

If I hear anything further I will post it.

Todd

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

The best people to ask about this would be to call SureFire Customer Service. I've been warned against putting the M3 Bezel and Lamp Modules on the M6, even though it may work, it's very unstable and could do nasty things to the bulb.

I've also found that underpowering SureFire lamps by running the DL123As flat can decrease the life of the Lamp Module because the Halogen Cycle works at high temperatures, and at low temperatures (flat batteries) the inside of the bulb can become coated with tungsten and produce a yellow beam.

I had one N2 Lamp yellow after loads of runtime tests and intensive use during my fieldtesting of the M3T. The MN15 & MN16 are on there way... I think these are basically MN10/11 bulbs mounted on a longer metal base for use in the TurboHead.

Why not call SureFire about the rechargeable 'CR123A's ?

Al

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Well I got another email back today and they still didn't know the capacity but they did know a couple users that are using them in surefire torches and said they were getting around 15-20min of runtime. I would also guess as with most rechargeables their voltage is not up to their lithium counterparts so you are probably loosing some brightness as well.

He said he would ask and see if they didn't mind emailing me more info. So with 15-20min of runtime and the high draw dislike or rechargeables (which would be about 3C at that rate) I would guess they are in the 600-800mah range.

Not enough runtime for me, but if you went through a ton of batteries and didn't mind carrying lots of batteries it might pay off in the long run.

Here's another thought, some bulbs don't like certain battery chemistry, anyone know if rechargeable cells would be a problem with the surefire lithium bulbs?

If I get more info I will post it.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Thanks pwell. Great News! This may not be of as much interest to the regular side of the forum, but for the LED side it is. That's because for LED lighting the run time is nowhere near as much of an issue, where run times are measured in hours or tens of hours. Also, the typical dilemma with an LED is that you need to hang the weird number of 3 batteries across it, but with NiMH batteries you can hang 4. Either that, or you could attach two 3 volt batteries, probably without a resistor. Up until now, we've been left with the usual selection of AA, C etc., but rechargeable 123s really open up a lot of possibilties. This leaves money to be better spent on LED pioneering instead of freakin' batteries.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

We are looking into offering these rechargable batteries in the U.S. the problem that I forsee is pricing. The price we would be able to offer these to the consumer at is around $17 a piece. Please let me know if anyone on here would be interested in them at this price.

Thanks,
Jerry Watterson
Sunn Battery Co.

Sunn Battery's website

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

If I would be interested in paying $17 a battery all depends on several things.

First and foremost the specs of the battery. If the battery is only going to last 15min in my surefire that runs a hour with normal lithium batteries then no I'm no interested for $17 a pop. However show my a rechargeable battery that will run my surefire for the same or close to the same runtime as a normal lithium 123 and I'd be real temped.

Then there is the matter of the charge and discharge characteristics of the battery, cost of the charger, resistance to temperature, self discharge rates etc. etc.

Todd

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Basically Tod summed it up.

If I were to pay $17 a battery it would depend on the capacity, self discharge rate and price of the charger.

I'd like to see some specs for these rechargeable CR123's.

Sean

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Add me to the list of potential interested parties. Post the specs and give a total delivered price of say 2-3 batteries and charger so we can all do the math based on our usage...

Tempting though

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

A couple of things I would like to know are

How much are we talking for 4 batteries and a charger?

How do they compare to lithiums in a surefire? I would love to see them side by side. If they were close I would probably get them and then charge them every so often in my work flashlight, the E2. But if they were noticeably dimmer I wouldn't do it because under powering the lamp will cause it to fail early. If there was some way to check what voltage these batteries supply under a 1-amp load for 1 minute that would be very interesting. I know lithiums will settle to about 4.9v

Brock

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Size15s:

I've also found that underpowering SureFire lamps by running the DL123As flat can decrease the life of the Lamp Module because the Halogen Cycle works at high temperatures<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't normally spend a lot of time on this side of the Forum, but I'd like to add my $0.02 to this thread.

Here's an interesting page about how halogen lamps work and how to kill them.
http://www.misty.com/people/don/bulb1.html#hb

This document refers in large part to the household and automotive types, but high-end flashlight halogens would be subject to the same kinds of chemistry and usage restrictions.

Where there are references to using a dimmer switch, this would be functionally equivalent to running a halogen flashlgiht with low batteries.
Even a drop of more than 10% in voltage can cause the bulbs to occasionally do scary sh!t. So you will want to use as high a voltage as is practical for as long as possible, and don't wait till the bulb is burning a dull yellow before changing batteries or sticking them on the charger.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Originally posted by Brock:

Here is what I got from the US Quest (Harding Energy) battery maker

>
>The NIMH 123 is something we are currently
>engineering, but unfortunately,it is not
>available now. I would expect it by the
>end of the year.
>
>Thanks for the inquiry. Sorry of the
>delay in our response.
>
>Heidi Vitek
>Customer Service
>[email protected]
>

Brock

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this is an old thread but it has been way over a year since Quest (this is the American Quest not the UK company) has said their rechargeable might be available. Does anyone know if this has happened?

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

These are the only ones I'm aware of.

http://thelightsite.cruxial.com/reviews/123a_rechargables.htm

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s are here!*MOVED to Batteries*

Our freinds in Hong Kong need to visit electtronics alley...

A freind of mine has told me about NiMh 123s that go for 40 minutes in a 6p before dying abruptly. Supposedly the charger was only $20, and each battery $3. He was only in HK for 1/2 a day in route to China.

Funny thing is, he says the batteries are apparently made in China as well as the charger but after spending 6 weeks in China, he didn't see anything that came close.

Becuase of this post, I will ask him e-mail me some pics