New guy with a big question

A friend and I will be running the Texas Water Safari next June.
http://www.texaswatersafari.org/
"The world's toughest canoe race."

Right now my biggest concern is paddling at night. We need a set of lights that can be mounted to the canoe, and will use a minimum amount of battery power over 3 nights of paddling, all night long. I checked the lunar charts for that day, and there will be no moon, lol. I made a pvc pipe stand that can be mounted to the canoe and swiveled/adjusted/easily removed. It can hold two AA maglight (or slightly larger diameter) flashlights.

The idea was to run 3W LED AA maglites, but after letting one burn out in my living room, I discovered they have about a 3 hour run time. We really do not want to carry 60+ AA batteries along for the journey and have to stop every 3 hours and replace them.

I am completely open to the idea of doing something more custom/permanent involving a couple high output LED's and a sealed rechargeable 6V or 12V battery with a solar charger for the daytime. I just do not know how to wire an LED to a larger 6 or 12 volt battery, if that is even possible.

Any suggestions, including those recommending flashlights (reasonably priced, preferably less than $100) are welcome. At the store I work at, have a Surefire that runs on a single 123A with a VERY bright LED that is advertized to run for 11 hours. It's $100, and I would need two. Does that seem reasonable for what I'm asking?

Brainstorm!

Thanks,
-Dan

Hi, u can actually et a G2 LED or a 6P LED. Both have the same output

the only difference is tat the G2 uses a polymer(plastic) body while the 6P

is HA aluminium. Both can run at 80 lumens for around 10 mins, then it

reduces to 70 lumens for another 3 hours then later it will give u a small

amount of light for another 9 hours. A grand total of 12 hours.. It runs on

2XCR123 batt..:twothumbs Or if you wan better and brighter one u can get the

G3 Led. its the bigger brother of G2 but with a runtime of 60 lumens for 6

hours and another 3 hours on low output.. it uses 3XCR123. and the best

is, each of them cost below $100!!!

A Fenix TK20 runs more than 10 hours on low and that low is rather bright, maybe as bright as the maglite. It uses two AA batteries.

Surefire a very good flashlights, but they are not using the newest and best leds (Because they do not make new versions of each models each year), i.e. they uses more battery that never lights.

If your want to do something yourself, your need a driver, that is a piece of electronic that sits between the led and the battery. Your can buy ready made drivers from DX (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7425).

HKJ said:

A Fenix TK20 runs more than 10 hours on low and that low is rather bright, maybe as bright as the maglite. It uses two AA batteries.

Surefire a very good flashlights, but they are not using the newest and best leds (Because they do not make new versions of each models each year), i.e. they uses more battery that never lights.

If your want to do something yourself, your need a driver, that is a piece of electronic that sits between the led and the battery. Your can buy ready made drivers from DX (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7425).

Click to expand...

Ya i agree a TK20 would last longer.. But i think in this case a surefire

might be better as the conditions are more harsh.. a surefire has a better

built quality. The chances of the fashlight dropping into the water is

pretty high.. I have a Fenix L2D myself.. Its more apprppriate to be used

as an EDC light for me.. the batteries are cheaper.... But for harsh conditions.. A SureFire is the best candidate for me.. Well tat's my opinion..

Zen|th said:

Ya i agree a TK20 would last longer.. But i think in this case a surefire

might be better as the conditions are more harsh.. a surefire has a better

built quality. The chances of the fashlight dropping into the water is

pretty high.. I have a Fenix L2D myself.. Its more apprppriate to be used

as an EDC light for me.. the batteries are cheaper.... But for harsh conditions.. A SureFire is the best candidate for me.. Well tat's my opinion..

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The TK20 is in the "Tank" serie from Fenix, they are rather solid. It will probably withstand water better then a Surefire G2.

I have both the TK20 and Surefire G2/G2L and like both types of lights.

Zen|th said:

The chances of the fashlight dropping into the water is pretty high

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which immediately disqualities Surefire
(PS: I use my modded 6P for everything and I do not drop it!)

I am no canoe racer, but from the bit of canoeing I have done, I would mean there is not too much light needed.
What is definitly needed were a light, small, WATERPROOF light, ideally a headlamp. Does not hurt if it can float.

So the Princeton Tech APEX is the 1st to recommend. In the lower levels good runtime.
Another candidate were a Streamlight ARGO HP - use it with a single 17650 Li-Ion and the driver uses 80 mA at Level 1, 350 mA at level 2.
Level one should equal to about 20 hours of light.
After an emitter swap (which You should plan on most any headlamp on the market), level 2 is bright enough I use the Argo for bike riding, together with the Cree modded 6P on the bars.


Good You skipped the Mag-Leds, they simply suck, in every aspect.
Except for the Fenix AA models - which stand any abuse any other light mentionned might stand - there were probably a better light, one that runs on an 18650 Li-Ion cell
(advantage: more power inside while the light stays the same size, also the charger is much cheaper)
Jetbeam Jet III Pro ST, three individually programmable light settings, at the moment the best "budget" 18650 light, imho
Multisize Li-Ion charger, example: http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire...7-volt-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_21-2279.html

Probably clip the fenix/SF/Jetbeam, ... onto the front of the canoe, but also use the headlamps
Just be sure not to switch to the very bright, short running levels.


PS: I have modded my ARGO HP to run on an 18650 also, so 1 size of rechargeable batts for the lights I use the most

I recomend some of Pelican or Princeton Tec waterproof LED's...moderately priced and SUBMERSIBLE!!!

I canoe and would use nothing but a headlight.

The Princeton Apex is a good choice (variable light settings thus power consumption also NMih capable)
The 2008 Apex Extreme uses 8AA cells for even longer burn time and brighter (100lm vs 60/80lm)but the standard (4AA) model is great too.... check the Headlight section there are several headlights using a Cree or similar new emitter.

Goodluck!

I too would suggest a headlight, and one that is as waterproof as my budget would allow. I've done a lot of canoeing and how much light you need depends on how fast the river is dropping. In whitewater I would want a LOT of light for reading the best path. On the other end, I canoed a flat river in the NJ pinelands with no lights and very little help from the moon [well before my CPF days].

The PT Apex is one headlamp in you range. I'm sure Black Diamond and Petzyl would have lights in your range. Find out what cavers use in that price range, they face similar harsh and wet conditions.

I'd suggest a headlight per person and two flashlights to mount on the front like you planned. I think a PT Apex headlight is a good choice. Get the regular model though. The Apex Extreme has a battery pack that goes on your belt. The problem will be the wire between the headlight and battery pack. It could get caught on the paddle and either slow you down, damage the light, or fling it from you head into the water. The 4 AA version will be fine as long as you get the new one with the Rebel l.e.d. For the two flashlights, I suggest two Fenix L2Ds or the similar newer version. An L2D will run nearly 60 hours on low with alkalines and 86 hours on lithiums. Low is still brighter than a standard minimag. Two on high will put out nearly as much light as a 40 watt million candlepower spotlight. There are good reasons to go with both flashlights and headlights in this case. First, you don't want to light up just the area in front of the boat. You may have to find a snack or water bottle in the canoe. Second, if you somehow fall out of the boat, you want to be able to see the boat and for others in the boat to be able to see you at the same time. Having lights on the boat as well as on you will avoid a long search and rescue mission. You may also want to have one dim l.e.d. light so you can see what you need on the boat and not mess up your night vision. A Gerber Infinity Ultra will work and can be clipped to a hat or headlight.

The Fenix L2D-CE Q5 or LD20 might be good for this. Medium on those lights is similar in output to the MinimagLED 2AA and it runs for 7 hours on alkalines and 12 hours on 2600 mAh rechargeable batteries.

A good headlamp might be better for this task though.

:welcome:

I would definitely go with the waterproof Pelican dive lights. I used a model 2400 out of a kayak and power boat for many years at night with good results. They now have a 2400 LED version. It's not that bright, but at night it seems quite adequate. I would use AA Energizer Lithiums, light, long lasting, carry plenty of spares in waterproof Pelican cases.

Other models would work, other manufacturers would work, but I would stick to real dive lights that I could count on working underwater. Falling in the water at night, with no light, can be a real bad experience. You may want to have a secondary waterproof light(water activated?) attached to each crewman's pfd for safety. Next I would attach a sharp dive knife to the pfd, you never know when you may have to cut loose from debris, and at night, it's ten times worse than day.

No I don't have any contact with Pelican, just like their products.

+1 on the Jetbeam Jet III Pro ST with its oh so low mode but i'm thinking that lugging around spare 18650 cells may not be so hot.

I'm thinking more of the Eagletac P10A2, runs on 2 x AA cells, commonly available, on low mode it runs 7 hours till it hits 50%, and then drops off pretty sharply. Still has a reserve high mode if you need it.

At $72 it should fit your budget too.

Review is here: http://www.light-reviews.com/eagletac_p10a2/

Get a solar powered AA battery charger, maybe 8 eneloops and you're good to go. Use 4 each night (assuming one change of cells), charge them in the day and you still have 4 reserve cells.

If you don't want rechargables, just get some 1.5v AA batteries, figured based on the runtime figures that you would need 12 cells for 3 nights per flashlight, so double up to be safe. 24 x AAs arent that heavy

Post some pictures of the light on your canoe and other occasions when you use the light.

Snipecatcher:

You can go with various combinations of: headlamps, handcarry lights, individual task lights, and bow lights. One possible combination:

Individual task light (tied to your lifevest) _ Fenix E01, $15 each. It's tiny. It has extremely long runtimes (10+ hours on a single AAA cell). It's just the right brightness for all the small things that you need to do at night, like reading maps or finding things in the canoe. Used only a few minutes at a time, one battery should easily last the whole trip. However, since this light will serve as your survival light in the case of an emergency dunking, I'd suggest that you keep a spare battery in your lifejacket. Ziplock it or plastidip the ends for waterproofing. If your life jacket doesn't have pockets, then use duck tape and string to make a makeshift lanyard for attaching the battery to the lifejacket.

Handcarry light _ I'd suggest that you carry at least one dedicated thrower, something like a Dereelight DBS V2 (attached to a floater, of course). Attach one of these to the flashlight, so that you can find it easily at night. The ultra-green is the brightest. Once shined up, it will last the whole night.

Headlamp _ Zebra H30, $65 each. 80/20/4 lumens with runtimes 2.5h/21h/3.7d on a single CR123 primary. I think you'll find 4 lumens more than sufficient for most of your work tasks. (By contrast, my Novatac 120P is set at 0.94 lumens, which I find ample for nightwalks away from city street lights.) If your bow lights fail, the headlamps on high can serve as your backup. Take along enough spare batteries, just in case.

Bow lights _ I'd suggest that you not worry about making them adjustable. Just point the lights in the direction of the bow. Your headlamps and handcarry flashlight will cover anything to the side. A lot of suggestions have been offered in this department, I have nothing more to add.

If possible, keep things simple by having everything operate off the same type of batteries. In the above case, I specified CR123 primaries (except fo the E01, which takes up little space even with an extra set of batteries).

I'm not sure your budget can afford all of the above lights, so you may need to compromise. Good luck!

Perhaps for the first time ever I am being completely honest in saying that a Big Beam model light will actually work for you! Normally I joke about them actually being useful in the modern day and age:laughing:, but what you need is basically a head light and since you don't actually carry this thing around then it should work very good. What light am I suggesting? Well the Bigbeam 1766 C powerhouse or probably a little bit better "due to enclosed battery box" the model 1001 http://www.bigbeam.com/lantern_1001.html. These light have a low "probably around 100 lumens" and high "around 275-325 lumens, running one PC903 http://www.cheapbatteries.com/lantern.htm this full size battery should pack 111 ah! "only need one" Giving over 7 full nights of run time on low "note: I have never had this actual battery, so it may only be half filled with 55 ah, not that that's much less run time. " make sure to do a dry run "even if it cost $25" to really see how long it will run. Lastly the bulb has a life of at least 100 hours, so compared with most Incan bulbs with only a 15 hour run time it should not let you down. Remember what ever you decide on, bring a backup.

Juggernaut said:

Perhaps for the first time ever I am being completely honest in saying that a Big Beam model light will actually work for you...

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Exactly what I was thinking. Since weight is not much of an issue, but COST, complexity, and hassle is, then go with something like that. Maybe just a regular old 12v 18ah gel cell (doesn't leak, costs about $35) and a 12v implement light (buy it from a tractor dealership). Total cost is about $90. Put 2 of the lights on the canoe. In case a bulb blows just turn the other one on. And you've also got 2x the light in case of really rough spots.

An 18ah gel cell, run for 36 hours (3x12) will give .5 amp. And .5 amp times 12v is 6 watts. This is plenty of light for pitch black.

Then de-rate this by 20% for safety. So, you either need a 5watt 12v bulb, or a little over a 20ah gel cell.

18ah 12v gel cell, $35

35ah 12v gel cell, part # PS-12350, $69

Ok i ahve a question.. If the fenix drops into the water and then somewhere some how it got spoilt.. does fenix have a warranty for tat?
Will they straight away give you a new one, or repair it for free?
(meaning that it is still in the first year you bought it)

mag4d led and get one of the maglite wallmount accessory and drill onto the boat. clip it in. 48hrs of runtime.

f22shift said:

mag4d led and get one of the maglite wallmount accessory and drill onto the boat. clip it in. 48hrs of runtime.

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+1

Say 42 hours before regulation "at 65% original brightness" falls off fast to about less then 25%, but actually I would think this light would make plenty of light:thumbsup: "to be fair not as much as Bigbeam 1001, or other 5 watt 12 volt SLA powered lights" but I really think this would be another good way to go. It would definitely be cheaper, say 35 dollars for light and one set of 4 D cells would cost less then $40 bucks. Not enough light? You could always double it up! "one adjusted for flood with the other focused in for throw and filling up the donut hole left by the other one". Then cost would be around the same as the Bigbeam 1001 with batteries going this rout.

f22shift said:

mag4d led and get one of the maglite wallmount accessory and drill onto the boat. clip it in. 48hrs of runtime.

Click to expand...

good answer..... forgot about those D cell lights.