Surefire 2-stage Tailcap questions

Hi geeks!!
I am looking for a more robust way to switch output modes on my 6P and M2. I am currently using a Solarforce multi-mode module and can switch between modes easily. However its not the most reliable setup because it will flip modes with a "whack", or slight impact to the light. I was using the M2 on Friday at work and it would switch modes just by placing the light down on a hard surface... INCREADIBLY annoying to say the least. To make matters worse, strobe is next in line after the 50L low mode :hairpull:

So... I think I will shelve the multi-mode drop in and stick with single mode modules, using a 2-stage tailcap. Currently I am using DX11836, but an M60 is in the future, so the switch should be robust enough to handle ~.65A at 8.4V. I also would like to use P60 incan modules too.

What tailcap would you recommend for a 6P and M2? (TypeII and Type III anodize). I am looking for a ~3-4 hour running low mode and full-power on high.... bipolar extremes if you will.

If you can forward any URL links and additional info that would be GREAT.

thanks in advance!!

I can't help, but i'm definitely interested in finding out whats available!

BUMP:twothumbs

For the M2

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=83844

Try the OpticsHQ switch. I got to try one out recently. It is very nice and seems quite robust.

Link?

kramer5150 said:

Currently I am using DX11836, but an M60 is in the future, so the switch should be robust enough to handle ~.65A at 8.4V. I also would like to use P60 incan modules too.

Click to expand...

If you really want to use the same switch with different Vbatt's, I'd definitely go with the two stage from the Shoppe (see thread linked above). I don't know how the OpticsHQ tailcap works, but most two or three-stage switches just use a resistor to limit the current, and are generally for a specific Vbatt. You can get/build one that will work for both 8.4V and 6V, but it probably won't have the low output you want at one (or both) Vbatt's. The advantage of the Shoppe switch is it's easy to assemble/disassemble and swap in boards with different resistors.

I wonder if 2-stage will reduce reliability.

as far as i know 2 stage momentary switches are more reliable than clickies, but i can be wrong.

So the 2-stage from the shoppe is like the switch on the Surefire L1? Press lightly for momentary low, press further for high? Twist for constant on?

Exactly

on the L1 and McE2S:

push : low
push harder : high
twist : constant low
twist farther : constant high

the differ on this:

on the L1 theres a position on the twist before lockout that will get to the point that if you push, even all the way it will only get you to low mode, on the McE2S the 2 modes will still be available until lockout position

etc said:

I wonder if 2-stage will reduce reliability.

Click to expand...

Thanks gents!! Great info.

I imagine at least part of the low-mode reliability is dependent on the skill level of the one doing the mod.

On the other hand, I mean its still basically a twist cap... just twist it all the way down for zero-resistance engage. I would think that even if you really botched up the mod, at the very least you'll still have the basic ON-OFF-ON... functionality.

???
:thumbsup:

kramer5150 said:

Hi geeks!!
I am looking for a more robust way to switch output modes on my 6P and M2. I am currently using a Solarforce multi-mode module and can switch between modes easily. However its not the most reliable setup because it will flip modes with a "whack", or slight impact to the light. I was using the M2 on Friday at work and it would switch modes just by placing the light down on a hard surface... INCREADIBLY annoying to say the least. To make matters worse, strobe is next in line after the 50L low mode :hairpull:

Click to expand...

Your problem is most probably a poor connection between the module and the battery tube, between the positive/center and the top of the battery, or simply a twisty-switch either not fully in or out.
Do some search here first, to improve the reliability of your light.

labrat said:

Your problem is most probably a poor connection between the module and the battery tube, between the positive/center and the top of the battery, or simply a twisty-switch either not fully in or out.
Do some search here first, to improve the reliability of your light.

Click to expand...

Yeah... its the mechanics of the M2 bezel. It has a soft foam sleeve that gently presses the module reflector down onto the light body. Its part of the shock-impact absorbing mechanism. The module is suspended between the foam/rubber sleeve and the compression springs at the other end. Compared to the C2/6P bezel which just clamps down hard to compress the springs. I knew this well before purchasing the M2 so its not like I am disappointed at all. Its a GREAT host for single mode modules (and of course incans). Thats why I'm thinking a multi-mode tailcap is the ideal solution, that would also solve any strobe & SOS annoyance.

Its QUITE the investment though... Light is $170, tailcap mod is $35... add an M60 (my ultimate goal) and you're looking at a $260 light. Fortunately the DX11836 is holding up very well... although I am not sure how well it does with a 60 ohm resistor limiting current in front of it.

thanks to all who replied!!

Question for those who use this mod...
How much longer does the light run in low mode?... I'm not looking for specific run time numbers, just a ball-park idea. Is low roughly 2x, 3x the run time of high? Say for a 60 ohm resistor mod.?

Yes, you might be right, the M2 bezel is not the best choice to use with a multi-mode LED drop-in.
But it will not improve anything using a 2-stage tailcap with this module and the M2 bezel!
If it is still having the short interrupts of power because the bezel does not clamp the drop-in module down well enough, it will still change mode when you shake your light!
You need a single-mode drop-in to avoid the mode-shifts, and let the tailcap do the job of changing the output of the light.

Using a resistor in series with the drop-in module will lower the voltage over the module, and the module will not be able to stay in regulation and the output will drop.
But I don't think the power/amperes drawn from the batteries will drop much, so you will not get much longer run-time on low using a two-stage resistorized tailcap!
You need the two- or multi-mode tailcap module with pulse-regulation (PWM-PulseWidthModulation) to save power and increase run-time on lower output!
It seems the OpticsHQ multi-mode tailcap is such a device.
But you will need a single mode drop-in/bulb too with your M2 bezel.

labrat said:

Yes, you might be right, the M2 bezel is not the best choice to use with a multi-mode LED drop-in.
But it will not improve anything using a 2-stage tailcap with this module and the M2 bezel!
If it is still having the short interrupts of power because the bezel does not clamp the drop-in module down well enough, it will still change mode when you shake your light!
You need a single-mode drop-in to avoid the mode-shifts, and let the tailcap do the job of changing the output of the light.

Using a resistor in series with the drop-in module will lower the voltage over the module, and the module will not be able to stay in regulation and the output will drop.
But I don't think the power/amperes drawn from the batteries will drop much, so you will not get much longer run-time on low using a two-stage resistorized tailcap!
You need the two- or multi-mode tailcap module with pulse-regulation (PWM-PulseWidthModulation) to save power and increase run-time on lower output!
It seems the OpticsHQ multi-mode tailcap is such a device.
But you will need a single mode drop-in/bulb too with your M2 bezel.

Click to expand...

I don't intend to use a multi mode module with a 2 stage tailcap. That would be pointless.

Short term plan is to use 11836 with the 60 ohm 2-stage switch.
Long term plan is to use an M60 (or M30 with 17670) with the 60 ohm 2-stage switch.

All of these 3 modules (AFIAK) drop out of regulation and run DD when voltages drop below a certain point. So with 60 ohm resistor engaged, the'y be running DD for lower output (like running them off depleted cells).

I was hoping that the low mode (60 ohm) would help to extend run times, relative to the high mode. So not only would it dim output for close range use, but run times would be longer with the resistor'd direct drive low mode.

I may just have to try it... I am not hearing anyone jumping and screaming not to.:thumbsup:

kramer5150 said:

I don't intend to use a multi mode module with a 2 stage tailcap. That would be pointless.

Short term plan is to use 11836 with the 60 ohm 2-stage switch.
Long term plan is to use an M60 (or M30 with 17670) with the 60 ohm 2-stage switch.

All of these 3 modules (AFIAK) drop out of regulation and run DD when voltages drop below a certain point. So with 60 ohm resistor engaged, the'y be running DD for lower output (like running them off depleted cells).

I was hoping that the low mode (60 ohm) would help to extend run times, relative to the high mode. So not only would it dim output for close range use, but run times would be longer with the resistor'd direct drive low mode.

I may just have to try it... I am not hearing anyone jumping and screaming not to.:thumbsup:

Click to expand...

I have the 60 ohm 2-stage tailcap and it will give you considerably longer runtimes on low. It isn't the most efficient way to get lower output (current regulation is better), but a lot less current will flow from the batteries. Don't remember my exact readings on the DMM with the different resistor values.. Might try to find some resistors and do some new readings.

It will be brighter on 2 R123s then 2 cr123s which are again brighter than a single 17670/18650.

IMHO it is the best way of making a 2-stage out of a M/C/P series Surefire.

Sverre

NoFair said:

I have the 60 ohm 2-stage tailcap and it will give you considerably longer runtimes on low. It isn't the most efficient way to get lower output (current regulation is better), but a lot less current will flow from the batteries. Don't remember my exact readings on the DMM with the different resistor values.. Might try to find some resistors and do some new readings.

It will be brighter on 2 R123s then 2 cr123s which are again brighter than a single 17670/18650.

IMHO it is the best way of making a 2-stage out of a M/C/P series Surefire.

Sverre

Click to expand...

Great thanks!!
I'm not looking for E01 levels of run time, but anything in the ~2 hour ball park would be GREAT from a pair of RCR123s.

kramer5150 said:

Great thanks!!
I'm not looking for E01 levels of run time, but anything in the ~2 hour ball park would be GREAT from a pair of RCR123s.

Click to expand...

No problem

I think you will get more than 2 hours, will try to measure current draw of my LumensFactore R2 drop in with different batteries.

Might do a couple of other drop ins if I get the time.

Sverre

With a 60 ohm resistor my Lumens Factory D26 R2 drop ins draws about a 1/5 of the current using 2 Li-ions. Runtime should then be about 5 hours on low with R123s.

With cr123s it draws 1/14 of the current on low. This should give something like 20+ hours on low.

The low is dimmer with cr123s since the module gets less current.

Sverre