Why are ARC LS so darn expensive???

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nightgaunt

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Not to stir up anger or flames, but why are these $120+? Granted, they have a Luxeon (some hand picked), HA (typeIII), and sweet construction, but still...

What type of use are they "aimed for"? I mean, for backpacking and outdoor use, they are poor, since runtime is king. A Petzl Tikka or Black Diamond Gemini would be better and much more versatile. I can see a "tactical" police/LEO use, but wouldn't a Surefire E2e or something equivalent be much better/versatile?

I guess I have a hard time justifying a $120-150 single LED light... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
 

PaulW

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There are plenty of other lights that are best for a particular application, like backpacking. But for the purpose of just carrying, for the occasional need for a bright, clean light that is small and light, I don't know of anything better. Just the feel of it in the hand is worth the money.

Perhaps it's like "love." You'll know it when you experience it.
 

PaulW

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By the way, nightgaunt, welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy being a part of it. But watch out, you may fall in love. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Gransee

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Someone asked me this same question the other day. My short answer was, "expensive parts!".

The yields on the luxeon stars we use in the Arc-LS series is about 10%. That means for every 10 parts, 1 makes the grade. The other 9 are returned for a refund but the paperwork takes some time so we have to finance that 90%.

Each Arc-LS is hand made and tested by American workers right here in Tempe, Arizona.

In addition, we use HA (as you mentioned) a top of the line DC/DC power supply (no one else is as efficient with a single 123), etc. We also put a large part of our budget into ongoing R&D so we can come out with new features on a more regular basis.

But, it still isn't for everyone. Some people just need a cheap light to get them by.

Btw, to answer your other question, "who are these made for?"... Arcs are made for anyone who needs a high quality light that is easy to carry, usefull and durable. This includes the "average Joe", military, LEO, medics, S&R, etc. The price is similiar or less to a digital camera, side arm, quality knife, leather jacket, GPS, etc.

Peter Gransee
 

nightgaunt

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Thanks for the welcome, Paul W.
I've been "lurking" on this forum for a few months, and finally decided to post.

Gransee, I understand about handmade products and great quality control. I have always lusted after the Arc LS, and one day I will get one. Right now, the cost seems a bit steep...thanks for the cost breakdown. I have several lights (CMG Infin., Tikka, Inovas..), and just wanted to see what the deal was. I guess it's like the BMW vs. Ford debate, eh?? I have caught the knife bug (too much $$ spent!!), and this is somewhat new to me. It is cool to have the owner of the company reply so quickly!

Also, how do you test for the "premium grade" LEDs? Also, how many people work at ARC? Thanks!
 

treek13

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To add to what Peter said, you must remember that Arc even has pretty tough standards for their 'Standard' Arc LS with even tougher ones for the 'Premium'. I don't know of any other company that has as tough of standards (in fact most other companies don't seem to have any standards for their luxeons, they just give you what they get).

For me personally, it was worth it to pay extra to know that I would get a luxeon in my light that was a good color and good brightness. I have bought from one of the other flashlight manufacturers that force you to play the "luxeon lottery" prior to buying an Arc and I got a sickly green one.

Pat

PS - I forgot to say welcome to CPF, Nightgaunt, you picked a good time to stop lurking and join up (after the server move).
 

dougmccoy

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I would agree with what others have already said: Quality costs and you wont find much better quality than in flashlight manufacture than Arc's! Period!

I, like you, was suspicious of Arc's and didn't appreciate just how good and how well executed Arc's manufacturing is but once you have owned one it becomes clear how much time and effort goes into one.

I suppose that in the end analysis are Arc's necessary....NO! Are Arc's desirable.....YES! Is Arc one of the best made and executed flashlights money can buy, IMHO..........YES!

You pays your money and takes your choice?

Regards

Doug
 

logicnerd411

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I thought it was TOO expensive, and even complained to Arc about it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (Yes, Peter, that complaint email a long time ago was me, when I had no money. Now I have splurged and bought one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Believe me, you WILL buy one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dan
 

nightgaunt

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Thanks for all the replies, guys. I have a feeling I will be purchasing one, just when grad school is over and I'm making a bit more! I guess you could look at grades of LEDs like the color/clarity of diamonds...good ones cost a lot!!
 

PaulW

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Nightgaunt. I don't know when school is over for you, but you ought to be aware (and perhaps are) that a new Arc LS, the LS4 is in the works, to be coming out this fall. It's even more sexy, so perhaps your timing is right. If it turns out you're not aware of it, you might enjoy using the search function on it.
 

Gandalf

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Arc-LS's *are* expensive, but you do get what you pay for.

You might want to consider buying an Arc-LS 'second', which has a 10 day money back policy, in case you get one you *really* don't like, or watch the Buy/Sell/Trade part of the forum. Used Arc-LS's in 'like new' condition come up for sale from time to time.

I finally broke down and bought an Arc LSH-P, (which is *very* nice, once I added some personal tweaks to it) and I'm debating about selling my older Arc-LS, which has a very nice bluish beam, (no green) and typical low-dome beam, which is actually nicer for inside use. (Not as tight a beam as the high dome model). Although it's not as nice as the top of the line LSH-P, I'm quite fond of it, and it may become a night stand light, or a light for my car....

Or I might sell it to buy yet another 'must have' flashlight....

Many other people are facing the same 'choice', as I'd bet the vast majority of 'Premium' Arc-LS buyers already own at least one older Arc-LS.

A word to the wise, though: check the B/S/T every day, even more than once a day, as these lights tend to sell pretty quickly! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Floating Spots

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I thought it was too expensive for a while.
Vitelcomp had a pretty darn good sale on the LSH-P and I broke down. Now, I carry it every day, along with my Arc AAA. It has been used A LOT. Even today, something was broken on the shop floor while I was out at lunch. I come back and two techs have diagnosed the problem, but can't find it. I whipped out the LS, and with good light, it took about 5 seconds to locate the problem.

You will be amazed at how much you use it, too.
Mine gets the 123 batteries out of my incandescent lights, so they last ~40 minutes. I'm on my third battery in as many weeks. I think that is a lot of flashlight time....
 

keithhr

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I own an arc aaa, arn arc lsh-p and just ordered another lsh-s, but the packaging could be improved upon, or there could be some kind of packaging to make it seem a little more professionally done.
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Welcome nightgaunt!

Yes, the LS premiums are like 1 carat, D, Flawless (GIA grading system), or maybe 7-8 carats. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

paulr

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The LSH-S for $70 at Countycomm is pretty tempting... it makes a Minimag with a Luxeon pill ($50 or more unless you're real careful) a lot less attractive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Sigman

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I just love the size of the ARC LS not to mention that you can run it on AAs as well as 123s! It's worth the extra $$!
 

Carpe Diem

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[ QUOTE ]
keithhr said:
I own an arc aaa, arn arc lsh-p and just ordered another lsh-s, but the packaging could be improved upon, or there could be some kind of packaging to make it seem a little more professionally done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Keithhr...

I assume you`re talking about the packaging for the Arc LS`s (plastic baggies), as opposed to the Arc AAA`s (which have rather top-of-the-line packaging).

I understand your comment, and from an objective vantage point, no one can argue with you. Also, Peter has already mentioned here on the CPF that fancier packaging is planned for the Arc LS`s in the future.

BUT, having said that, some of us who are self-proclaimed purists really like the plastic-baggy packaging that has been Peter`s trademark since the very beginning of Arc...and we`ll miss the traditional baggies once Peter does go "uptown" with the new LS packaging.

Hopefully, though, Peter will still give us diehards an option for "baggy-packaging" once he does make the transition.

Best wishes to you!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

keithhr

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plastic baggy packaging purism, I'm going to have to reflect on that. This is my third attempt at a reply, the first two I erased because I'm not sure how they would have been received. I hope the next arc that I buy comes in a custom made, hand engraved rosewood box. Or at least an cardboard box with ARC flashights printed on the side.
 

JustAGuy

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I'll go to my grave defending a company's right to set its own pricing. If you don't like the price, buy something else. But, in my personal and humble opinion, the LS price does seem too high. I'm sure the folks at Arc have forgotten more about "price elasticity" than I ever learned from my econ courses, but I can't help but think the LS would be a goldmine if you dropped the price in half.
 
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