just got sf M6, have a couple of questions

Hello to all,
I've recently bought the sf m6 (thanks to silverfox !) and
I'm very impressed with it : very bright and perfect beam.
I think the throw is comparable to the magcharger's but the hotspot's size is way bigger, even with the LOLA. I've noticed that with the HOLA, the throw is about the same, the difference being a much larger hotspot: is this normal ?
I'm also impressed with the manufacturing quality and the design of this thing, it makes my magcharger look cheap.
It's my second surefire to date (the first was a 6P)and I'm eager to add a third to the list. What I'm now looking for is something that would have the same size, total output,
overall quality but with a much tighter beam, does it exist ? I don't know what you think, but for me, the maximum usefull distance the m6 and magcharger can throw is about 150 yards and I would like something that could be used up to 300 yards. I think that with 250 lumen, it would need a beam angle of 3-4 degrees, when the m6's beam angle must be something like 8 degrees: does surefire have some "ultra-turboheads" in preparation ? If there is no surefire light meeting these criteria, do you know of any quality flashlight that does ?
Kind regards to all,

François.

Because of the orange peel style of the Surefire reflectors, you're probably not going to get the throw you'd want from any Surefire light. Guys like the M6 and 10X aren't really designed for throw, per se, as they are for overwhelming light at close to mid-range distances.

I believe the 3" turboheads were the best throwers, but those are hard to find. I've heard some good tidbits of the SRTH, but again, you're dealing with orange peeled reflectors. These guys probably won't give you anything better than 6 degrees beam spread, if at that...

Lumen output from SureFire gives you an idea of the beam size. This is classic line round the other way from normal questions about HOLAs!

Yes, the 500Lu beam will be larger than the 250Lu beam and although there is a difference in intensity at least to start with, the major reasons for more Lumens is to see more of your surroundings more quickly and increase the impact of the light when shone at a target.

What will out-throw the M6 from SureFire?
Or what will have a thinner beam from SureFire?

In my experience the N2 Lamp in the T 3" TurboHead is a thin beam. The 9NT (discontinued) produces the brightest, longest throwing SureFire beam in my experience.

What is in the pipe from SureFire with regards to increasing beam throw?
I've been demanding longer throw beams for years now. I doubt there are many SureFires currently available that have Lumen output to make such longer throw beams useful.

With regards to non SureFires with thin throw beams - the TigerLight and new MagCharger come to mind as quality products.

Al

Longest throw SureFire

My Lepord light has the longest throw I have experienced. This is a special purpose light that attaches to rifle scopes (12volt).

Re: Longest throw SureFire

[ QUOTE ]
Ninja said:
My Lepord light has the longest throw I have experienced. This is a special purpose light that attaches to rifle scopes (12volt).

[/ QUOTE ]

If I am not mistaken the SF Leopard light is the same as the discontiuned 12PM/PZ. It uses a 500lm N62 LA with a 2,5" Turbohead similar to the SRTH. I could imagine changing the 2,5" Turbohead with one of the discontiunued 3" Turboheads could improve the throw while reducing the light spilled to the sides.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

According to what I've read, the solution would be to find some discontinued style 3" turboheads, or to buy the srth, but the 3" seems to have an edge. Does anyone know a dealer selling the 3" as second hand items ( I'll post a message in the buy/sell forum as well)? If it's combined with a 500 lumen lamp assembly and as tight as a magcharger's beam at it's tightest, then it would clearly outthrow it, no ?
I wanted to add that I thank you all for sharing freely your impressive collective knowledge in such a friendly manner.

François.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

The 3" heads are hard to find there are no major dealers that still have them I have checked long and hard. You can find them here once in a while in BST or on ebay. I have heard of some finding them at small local dealers from time to time also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Longest throw SureFire

Also I have two of them that are very different one has a much smother reflector and better throw however it also has some dark spots in the beam.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

I think I'll try to find a 9NT. If I finally get one, can I put the regular N3 lamp assembly in it, or does it require some lamp assemblies that are also discontinued ?

François.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

The 9NT is the Turbohead version of the 9N, it is a rechargeable light, not Lithium powered. It uses the same LA as the 9AN-KT which is the N3. The N3 is not discontinued.
Even though the 9NT is not that handy due to the 3" Turbohead it is one of my favourite ones due to the beam it produces. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Longest throw SureFire

I agree.

The 9NT is not a flashlight I carry but one I use. It's beam is about the most narrow longest throwing beam (highest output) that SureFire have ever released to the public.

I use my 9AN+KT3 more often because I find the beam more useful, but it isn't as impressive.

Al

Re: Longest throw SureFire

Al you mean it has longest throw but do you really think it beats the 500 lumen output of the M6? K-T is saying it uses the same LA as 9AN-KT. Isn't that 140 lumens just like the non-turbo LA?

Re: Longest throw SureFire

In the 3" diameter "T" TurboHeads the N3 with it's 140Lu of output produces the tightest brightest, bestest beam of the ones I have (which is all of them)

The likes of the MN16, MN60, MN61 & N62 put out more light but the beams are larger.

The M6 lamps can not be used in the T TurboHead because it can't be attached to the M6.

TurboHead version of the various models use the same output lamps as the standard bezel versions.

N1 = P60 (2 cell)
N2 = P90 (3 cell)
N3 = N90 (9N/9AN)
N4 = R60 (6R/7Z)
N5 = X80 (8X/8AX)

And for the M3T = M3 -
MN15 = MN10
MN16 = MN11

The TurboHeads focus the same amount of light into a tighter beam compared to the standard bezels.

Al

Re: Longest throw SureFire

A question for Al and Klaus, who live in europe. I suppose that you have 220 AC in england and in germany, does the charger on your 9NT handle the 220 AC or do you use a transformer 220 to 110 ? What is the model of the batteries,
is it the still produced b92 ? One last question for Al the surefire expert: what does distinguish the T1, T2 and T3 turboheads, and which one fits the 9NT ?
Did some more tests with the m6 HOLA in a pitch dark place, and now I understand what you mean when you talk about a "wall of light"

François.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

I use the UK T220 which is a heavy tranformer for UK AC
The Continental version is T230.

T210 - USA
T220 - UK
T230 - Euro
T240 - Australia

(From memory)

So the kit versons have the aditional number:
for Euro; KR13

The B92 is still an active part I beleive.

I need to send you some photos of the T TurboHeads!

The T1, T2, T4 are the same T TurboHead and Collar with different lamps.
The T5 is the same T TurboHead with 8X Collar.
The T3 fits without a collar onto only the 9N.

The KT1, KT2 are the same KT TurboHead amd Collars with different lamps.
The KT5 is the same KT TurboHead with 8AX/8NX Collar.
The KT3 fits without a collar onto only the 9AN.
The KT4 fits without a collar onto only the "Millennium" models (M1 & M2 excluded).

If you have a friend you trust with your M6, I suggest that you go out into a dark field or wood and walk in the dark for 20 minutes. Then with you friend with the M6 out 20-50 metres away, get him to shine the M6 at your face and advance quickly on your position. Then you'll see why SureFire's beam (spread and size of beam) is so effective.

François,
I will email you a few photos when I get home this evening.

Al

Re: Longest throw SureFire

I use the T230 wall plug (also from memory).

François, check you email. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Re: Longest throw SureFire

Klaus, thank you very much for your mail !
Al, thank you for the informations, I'll have to print them for memory: it's a quite complex nomenclature.
I have one more question. You told me that the 9NT works (only ?) with the N3 LA, which has two bulbs (one 140 and one 30 something lumen): does this mean that you're able to switch between a high output and a low output mode as on the 9AN ? This would add tremendous intersest to this light for me .

François.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

Yes, the 9N and 9NT have a dual bulb setup. To switch between the high output and low output you simply twist the head to the right or left, very easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The mechanics behind this on the 9NT is identical to the 9AN.

Re: Longest throw SureFire

I like the 9NT, asides from its size. The regular T-less 9N goes everywhere I do, but the old T3 digs in a bit whenever I try to carry it. But that beam goes a long way!

Proving that it is possible to take bad photos with a Sony F717, here - for size comparison with a M3:


(the original 9N head is that thing on the left)



Beamshot comparing 9NT and M3 shining out into the garden - beams are not as yellow and certainly not as dim to the eye as in this shot. Didn`t get the exposure setting right....



And finally the two beams shone against a familiar household object for maybe a better judge of size /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Now, as to where you`ll get one......good luck hunting cos they aren`t easy to find these days!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Longest throw SureFire

M3 into the toilet? Hmmmm. What would Dr. Freud say?