Muyshondt Aeon Titanium vs. Aluminum

I'm trying to decide which configuration Aeon to get and thought I would get some opinions. How much lighter is the titanium than the aluminum?
I know titanium is stronger, but which is more likely to scratch? Is titanium that much better for me to justify spending twice as much for it over the aluminum?

Titanium is heavier than aluminum, but lighter than steel.

Assuming that they kept the same dimensions for each body, then titanium would be noticably heavier (I don't own an Aeon, nice light though). However, titanium would also resists dents or nicks (like from dropping onto asphalt) waaaay better than aluminum. That's one of the reasons I prefer Ti - I have a tendency to drop things, and hate how most aluminum tends to deform so easily when dropped - 7 series Al is the exception, but still not nearly as good as grade 5 Ti (Ti-6-4).

As for scratching, this is very dependent on the finish of the light and you'll get all sorts of conflicting opinions on this. Depending on the alloys used, titanium might be a bit better or a bit worse (it tends to show scratches quite well). IMO, there isn't a big difference between most bare alloys here (at least the ones you'll find flashlights constructed of) - they all will scratch, but if you're careful you can minimize that (don't carry in pocket with other metal objects). Titanium is prized for it's superior specific strength, i.e., strength to weight ratio, which is significantly better than most aluminum and ferrous alloys. If you plan on abusing your light and want the ultimate durability, go Ti. Don't obsess over scratches, or if you do then look for something coated (type III anodized aluminum or titanium with TiN or related coating).

titanium is heavier, shows scratches alot more, and isnt as good with thermal management, but its wayyyy cooler to saw that your flashlight is made out of titanium.

To sum things up...

Aluminium
+ lighter, harder to scratch when HA, cheaper, good heat conductance
- weaker, uglier when it does get scratched and pretty much unrepairable

Titanium
+ stronger, scratches are "self-healing"* and can be polished, good heat emission, has an aura of exclusivity
- heavier, scratches much more easily, more expensive

* meaning they will (re)form a protective oxide film quickly and without assistance


Assign those pluses and minuses your own priorities (weighting factors) and see where that gets you.

I have a degree in mat sci, and we were taught that both titanium and aluminum form highly adherent oxide films spontaneously upon exposure to air which is why they resist corrosion so effectively (BTW - titanium is tops in terms of corrosion, so if you spend a lot of time in or around salt water, that may be a consideration as well).

Aluminum with type III anodizing (HA) has simply been chemically forced to build up this oxide film to a far greater thickness than what occurs naturally. It is very resistant to scratches, but once it scratches they become very obvious (depending on the color of course) since bare metal is exposed. Titanium can be anodized as well, but you are limited in how thick an oxide film you can form (relatively thin compared with aluminum) and the strength of the oxide coating is poor so it is not a durable coating (but a nice looking one, IMO). Transition metal nitride hard coatings (TiN, TiAlN being the most common) for titanium are even more durable than HA aluminum IIRC, but also less common for flashlights.

The titanium used in the Aeon is raw and unalloyed, which is among the weakest of the titanium grades. If you're laying out big money for a Ti light, you'd be better off with a (up to 3x) stronger alloyed grade.

AvidHiker said:

titanium is tops in terms of corrosion, so if you spend a lot of time in or around salt water, that may be a consideration as well).

Click to expand...

thats why McG is working it Ti so much these days

Ah, thanks for that - didn't bother checking, always seems to happen when you assume...

That's unfortunate, but at least they advertise what grade they are using. CP (commercially pure) grade 2 Ti is at least a good bit stronger than grade 1, and compares favorably against 6061-T6 aluminum in terms of strength and hardness. Hardness is typically a good indicator for scratch resistance - higher hardness should give better resistance against scratching (but if they show more easily on Ti, it won't matter). I still feel that there shouldn't be much difference, aluminum will scratch to high heaven as well, and in the right light you'll see it.

According to this site, grade 2 is actually a lot harder than grade 5:
http://aircraftmaterialsuk.com/data/electronic/altit.html
Maybe that's where Ti gets its bad rep from since most lights seem to be grade 5 (most notably as McGizmo's alloy of choice).

Wisk I still had my metals handbook.:shrug:

Anyway, I would agree with StarHalo - unless corrosion resistance is of great importance (or bragging rights), I'd go with aluminum - and if you go anodized, look for HA natural if you're concerned with scratches. If you're looking for another reason, as someone previously mentioned, aluminum also keeps the LED as cool as possible since it carries heat into your hand more efficiently. Well heatsinked LEDs operate more efficiently, which should translate into longer runtimes (probably only makes a difference at max output).

AvidHiker said:

According to this site, grade 2 is actually a lot harder than grade 5:
http://aircraftmaterialsuk.com/data/electronic/altit.html

Click to expand...

The hardness rating on that site is a typo; From the Aerospace Specification Metals datasheets:

Titanium Grade 2:
Hardness, Knoop 170
Hardness, Rockwell B 80
Hardness, Vickers 145

Titanium Ti-6Al-4V (Grade 5)
Hardness, Knoop 414
Hardness, Rockwell C 41
Hardness, Vickers 396

See the full spec sheets here: http://www.aerospacemetals.com/titanium.html

Grade 5 is pretty much as hard as titanium/-alloys get, here's the full grade chart:

ASTM Grade / Alloy Composition / Min.Tensile (KSI) / Min.Yield (KSI) / Modulus of Elasticity (PSI-106)

1 Unalloyed Ti ("Pure") 35A 35 25 14.9
2 Unalloyed Ti ("Pure") 50A 50 40 14.9
3 Unalloyed Ti ("Pure") 65A 65 55 14.9
4 Unalloyed Ti ("Pure") 80A 80 70 15
5 Ti-6Al-4V 130 120 16.4
6 Ti-5Al-2.5Sn 120 115 16
7 Ti-0.15Pd 50 40 14.9
9 Ti-3Al-2.5V 90 70 13.1
10 Ti-11.5Mo-6Zr-4.5Sn 100 90 14.9
11 Ti-0.15Pd 35 25 14.9
12 Ti-0.3-Mo-0.8Ni 70 50 14.9
13 Ti-0.5Ni-0.05Ru 40 25 14.9
14 Ti-0.5Ni-0.05Ru 60 40 14.9
15 Ti-0.5Ni-0.05Ru 70 55 14.9
16 Ti-0.05Pd 50 40 14.9
17 Ti-0.05Pd 35 25 14.9
18 Ti-3Al-2.5V-0.05Pd 90 70 15.3
19 Ti-3Al-8V-6Cr-4Zr-4Mo 115 110 14.9
20 Ti-3Al-8V-6Cr-4Zr-4Mo-0.05Pd 115 110 14.9
21 Ti-15Mo-2.7Nb-3Al-0.25Si 115 110 14.9
23 Ti-6Al-4V ELI 115 110 16.3
24 Ti-6Al-4V-0.05Pd 130 120 16.4
25 Ti-6Al-4V-0.5Ni-0.05Pd 130 120 16.4
26 Ti-0.1Ru 50 40 14.9
27 Ti-0.1Ru 35 25 14.9
28 Ti-3Al-2.5V-0.1Ru 90 70 13.1
29 Ti-6Al-4V-0.1Ru 120 110 16.3

Knowing all this, I'd definitely go with the McGizmo if I were in the market for a Ti light.

Buy both while they are still available...

Outdoors Fanatic said:

Buy both while they are still available...

Click to expand...

+1

If $$ is of concern, EDC them for awhile and then sell whichever you like least.

My money says you won't be able to part with either one!

Ah yes, thanks for that - I was hoping that was a typo since it didn't really make sense, but I don't find myself looking up metal properties very often anymore and didn't have the time to find a reliable source. I really should have known better since I'm aware that there are different Rockwell scales, and the likelihood that they were referring to HRC and not B even occurred to me as I was looking at that site.

After reviewing this data, I would definitely not go Ti for the Aeon.

StarHalo said:

Knowing all this, I'd definitely go with the McGizmo if I were in the market for a Ti light.

Click to expand...

I have one of Don's PDs which I've loved through all my flashaholism and it's about as indestructable as you can get. I'll never forget the first time it went flying out of my car as I swung the door open, smacking into the curb and bouncing around on the street - barely a nick. Grade 5 Ti is truly an amazing material. Probably more difficult to machine relative to CP grades, and perhaps with all the knurling on the Aeon it would have driven the price too high.

I've always thought people buy lights made with titanium either as:

shelf queens or metal stock [in the same manner as why someone people have a knack for collecting gold/silver ingots/bullions]
or
EDCs them heavily in very very rough environments where an aluminum light may wear through:thinking:

at least thats what I see in lights made from titanium...PITA to machine, expensive, not real benefit in using them in flashlights, but very beneficial to other, more structurally emphasized areas

my opinion, stick with aluminum, for one thing you get the availability color, for another...you won't feel so bad if you lose it. As far as that goes, if the Aeon really impresses you, you could always buy the Titanium later

I carried a Titanium CR2 Ion (the Aeon's predecessor) on my keychain for ~18 months. During that time it was constantly being jangled about in my pocket with keys, knives and other steel objects. At the end of the 18 months I replaced it with the Aeon, but I still have the Ion and you have to look very closely to see any scratches at all - it still looks practically as good as new.

I am totally confident that my Ti Aeon, which is an improved version of the Ion and almost identical in appearance, will last me for years.

DM51 said:

I carried a Titanium CR2 Ion (the Aeon's predecessor) on my keychain for ~18 months. During that time it was constantly being jangled about in my pocket with keys, knives and other steel objects. At the end of the 18 months I replaced it with the Aeon, but I still have the Ion and you have to look very closely to see any scratches at all - it still looks practically as good as new.

Click to expand...

That's good to hear. Would you say the substantially knurled surface might help to conceal scratches? In which case, it probably doesn't matter what material you go with in term of scratch resistance for the Aeon.

I believe the common assertion that titanium scratches more easily is simply an artifact of what limited choices one has in titanium lights to begin with (and the fact that it's almost always offered bare - it really doesn't need a coating anyway, that's part of its beauty!), coupled with the fact that bare aluminum bodied lights are not very common at all (actually, I only know of a couple, and they're customs). I have a bare aluminum Lummi Raw and I found in no time it was terribly scratched (and I thought I was being careful).

IMO, it's only accurate to say:

Bare titanium scratches more easily than HA.

Of course it does, but this really isn't a fair comparison. You're comparing a metal to a ceramic - the difference in hardness is substantial (according to this, HAIII can have hardness values of up to HRC 70, compared with HRC 41 for Ti-6-4). Additionally, the normally matte finish of HA should help to conceal scratches far better than shiny bare metal, but once you chip through it (especially if it's black), you're left with a blemish far more annoying than fine scratches, IMO.

Knurling will probably help to conceal any scratches that might show up on a polished surface.

I am not a metallurgist and I don't know what type # of Ti Endeavour uses, but whatever it is, it is tough.

HA may in theory be harder, but if it does get scratched, this will show up because of the color. HA Natural (gray/green) is the hardest, and it is my understanding that other colors that are added during the process can slightly weaken the structure. But whatever color it is, if anodising is worn through, you will see the bare Al beneath, and that will be much more visible than any scratch on Ti.

The other point is that even if Ti is scratched, the scratches are very superficial unless the object is run over by a truck.

This means that the scratches can easily be buffed out with a fine abrasive sponge pad and then the light can be quickly polished
with a cloth to restore it to a pristine finish once again with very little effort.

Try doing that with HAIII Al. :nana:

As others have mentioned, practically the whole surface is knurled; you're not going to be troubled by scratches unless you're crazy obsessive.

Get the titanium if you can afford it. There's no comparison in looks and wow factor. I EDC my titanium Aeon in a pocket with keys and other junk and scratches are not a problem.

easilyled said:

This means that the scratches can easily be buffed out with a fine abrasive sponge pad and then the light can be quickly polished
with a cloth to restore it to a pristine finish once again with very little effort.

Click to expand...

I did mention that in the summary, quite a few posts ago:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2680809&postcount=5