Gear sites+flashlightes=CRAP...WHY!

Why do top of the line backpacking gear companies sell **** lights, it pisses me off....Is the rest of their gear out-dated? Does anyone else feel this way, I guess all of us on this site could be flashlight reps but come on, having princeton tec lights from 5 years ago as some of the main lights....I guess they have contracts or some other bs to stop them from selling high end lights that are similar in price. Sorry had to vent!

What are some lights that use standard batteries that you think the backpacking sites should carry but don't?

1. the backpacking breed does not see lights as important as we do,
2. they normally not hike the night and thus small, cheap, long running lights is what they buy.

yellow said:

1. the backpacking breed does not see lights as important as we do,
2. they normally not hike the night and thus small, cheap, long running lights is what they buy.

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Exactly, and most are moving over to headlamps. The sad thing is there are not that many great quality headlamps.

yellow said:

1. the backpacking breed does not see lights as important as we do,
2. they normally not hike the night and thus small, cheap, long running lights is what they buy.

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I agree, but why not throw in some cheap DX lights or something, they cheap and have decent runtimes/outputs. I guess I value flashlights as a much more useful tool while backpacking weather it be for lighting of macro shots or looking into deep pools of water. Then again I am usually looking for insects and other critters.

As a backpacker, I have to say that it is predominately about balancing output and weight and I actually do a lot of night hiking. I will agree that headlamps may not have kept pace in so far as technology and output but I believe that they are too often trying to fit the ultralight backpackers taste. Some backpackers that I know think that a two ounce headlamp is too heavy and that crowd is definitely a driving force in the market as well as the casual camper/hiker. By the same token, I personally do not want to carry a headlamp that is over four ounces, I would rather carry two headlamps, one smaller back up light for general lighting and the lightest high output HL for trail blazing with plenty of spare batteries for both as opposed to one large bulky and uncomfortable headlamp. Princeton Tec does have it's faults but I will choose them over Petzl and Black Diamond due to their superior weatherproofing and their use of regulation.

Yes they have all been slow to upgrade their Leds but I think that it has a lot to do with heatsinking of an object that is smack dab on your bare forehead as well as balancing the weight/output trade offs. I am actually thinking about carrying a compact single cell thrower like one of the Jetbeams as my backup light so if you addup my 3.6ozHL+at least two if not three backup sets of batteries and a small compact thrower plus backups and possibly a sheath, you are pretty close to if not over a pound. I have carried 65+lb packs and it sucks so cutting weight wherever possible is of paramount importance and personally if I want to add weight to my pack, I have made it a rule that I must also decrease that weight before I allow myself to carry additional weight. There always seems to be a trade off somewhere! Are there any particular stores that you are critiquing or most in general?

As for the swing towards headlamps, well I haven't had to hold a flashlight in my mouth ever since I have made the switch, very freeing and much safer in my opinion.

ScubaSnyder said:

Why do top of the line backpacking gear companies sell **** lights, it pisses me off....Is the rest of their gear out-dated? Does anyone else feel this way, I guess all of us on this site could be flashlight reps but come on, having princeton tec lights from 5 years ago as some of the main lights....I guess they have contracts or some other bs to stop them from selling high end lights that are similar in price. Sorry had to vent!

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Don't know which store you are talking about specifically but my local REI sells Surefire, Inova and Photon micro lights as well as some princeton-tec water submersible lights. Yes their Mag and Gerber lights are pretty dated.

As one who frequently night hikes bright lights are a detriment to night dilated vision, they hinder night-visibility more then they enhance it.

a few points to think of ...
but that heatsinking part is not explained good.
1st a new led that only needs half the current ... there simply is no way not to use it in battery powered application
2nd this new led produces less heat, so changing to it is better anyway
(light can give more light, or light can be made lighter w. smaller sink, ...)

I dont understand why the lamp makers havent all switched already and my understandig ist that the customers have no clue at all AND dont care because they dont see a light as an important piece of their gear.
WE here simply dont buy such lights (or, better, we are crazy enough to plan emitter swap on totally new light).

I like my Streamlight Argo HP, modded with Seoul and 18650 very much. Just a tad bigger than a Tikka, but 6 hours of brutally brighter regulated light at high.
The hikers I know are light-dorks

PPS: I would not think about DX offerings, apart from build quality, they tend to be max output focused. At the moment I am getting some Fenix E01s to put into every backpack of the family. With lithiums, this seems a very good emergency/all around light.

yellow said:

1. the backpacking breed does not see lights as important as we do,
2. they normally not hike the night and thus small, cheap, long running lights is what they buy.

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I am a backpacker and I consider lights as being very important. I have friends who take backpacking seriously and they carry decent lights. What they don't do is buy a new light every month because the newest one is brighter or longer lasting. Most l.e.d. flashlights give you decent runtime with adequate brightness. One of my friends hikes the John Muir Trail annually and still uses the same original Petzl Tikka Plus to this day. It has survived years of use and it's trustworthy. Durability is more important to a backpacker than anything else. I don't care how efficient a light is , how bright it is, or how much runtime it has. If it can't survive the hard use of backpacking, it will never go in my pack. Older lights have a proven track record and when people buy a new light, they buy what they're familiar with and what they trust. They don't want to fiddle with a new U.I. or have to put the batteries in a different way in the dark. Keep in mind that just because backpackers don't buy the brightest lights like you, doesn't mean they don't consider them as important as you do. They simply have a different set of priorities when it comes to lights. Durability comes first, then runtime, then brightness. They still buy quality lights, just not the brightest lights.
I do go on nighthikes, constantly. When backpacking, I stay close to camp at night so I don't get lost, but I still use a light at night for setting up camp, cooking, cleanup, bearbagging, etc. In camp chores require less light and more runtime, but I still take a thrower light for spotting bears and finding trails.
As for headlights not being upgraded soon enough, I agree that they usually aren't as bright as flashlights. However, for most situations they don't need to be. In warm weather, they attract bugs to your face. In colder weather, when your breath gets fogged up, you can get blinded by it. It makes sense to have a headlight that isn't too bright. By the way, there are way more multilevel headlights than flashlights even today.
Instead of us complaining that sporting goods stores don't have the best, up to date lights, we should be glad that we have better lights available today and decent lights are in cheaper stores. Cree, Rebel, and K2 lights are flooding the market. Princeton Tec has finally upgraded their headlights along with Petzl, and Black Diamond. Surefire lights are now sold at REI and Lowes. I just bought a rebranded Fenix L1T 2.0 with a Leatherman Blast at Costco for $50 (the light alone + shipping would have cost me more online). Energizer, Duracell, and Coleman now have decent offerings at Walmart and Target in the $20-$30 range. I can get a brighter light for $20 than I bought for $60 5 years ago (CC Expedition). Why can't we be happy with the progress being made instead of complaining that it's not good enough?

zebralight definitely needs to take their headlamps more mainstream, get them sold at REI or something. would be huge.

Regarding the heat sinking comment from my previous post, I was referring to the older Luxeon leds as opposed to the newer Rebels and or Cree's but please feel free to correct me because I am certainly no electronics expert, I will gladly welcome any new knowledge.

Generally, by the time that some new technology hits the market, it is already outdated. I can only postulate why companies may be slow to upgrade but they may be considering liquidating old stock materials, waiting for the price to come down on newer technology, and demand for that new technology vs cost of potential upgrades when they also know that potentially better innovations are also on the horizon.

I am usually one of those people who let others flock to the newest and most expensive innovations and wait til the dust settles before jumping on the bandwagon and yes, brighter is not necessarily always better IMHO. I like the idea of the new EOS being brighter but I fear that the low output may be higher than the old version which would result in other trade offs and a whole new decision matrix, basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The best night hike that I ever had was when Bats were flying through the beam of my headlamp and picking off insects for dinner, or should I say breakfast, it scared me at first but after that, it was a pretty neat show.

I won't go on any further on Headlamps so we don't wind up totally hijacking the original thread.

Hei ScubaSnyder,
All those old lights are being advertised because they still sell.
Lots of em have been sold and folks see 'em in action and will go hunt
for a light they have seen and know works. Also the old stock is
discounted and some sharp business-dude is making money.
Its a point todays Mfg'ers should capitalize on ie make new lamps look alot like the old ones to draw repeat business.

Also a 5 yr old headlamp will still get the tent set up and the cooking done.

I understand what the Original Poster is talking about.


Look here:


http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___55930



Camp-Mor still sells the Princeton Tec Impact XL

for Thirty Bucks ! ! !


Now, understand, i LIKE this flashlight.

Bought one (from Camp-Mor) two years ago.

I've written some very nice things about it, on CPF.


But, good grief . . . .

It was mfr. rated (right on my package) at 17 Lumens max.

And it requires 4 cells to achieve this ! (AA's)

No regulation, either.


And they still sell it for Thirty Bucks !




Hey, i certainly do LIKE mine.


But would never (again) pay that much for it.



C'mon, P-T, how 'bout an upgrade here ? ? ?

(sigh)

:sigh:
_

If you owned a battery company you would not be so eager for folks to
know about state of the art LED lights that only need a fraction of the current
older models used to achieve useful output.
So its another run of the mill conspiracy. Their motto: Maximize profits!

Hey, you aren't suggesting that there is a covert corporate piracy plan to swindle the consumer out of their hard earned cash, I don't believe it!

Actually, I believe that PT did upgrade the ImpactXL, or at least mine has an insert similar to the Streamlight 4AA ProPolymer as opposed to the side emitting PR base bulb pictured on Flashlightreviews.com. I agree that it's a nice light and I wonder if yours is similar to mine and PT is listing the XL at 30+Lumens on their new site but I hear ya on the thirty buck issue.

They'll probably just keep pushing them on sale just like the Aurora, an old sentimental favorite, the lens kinda reminds me of the "War of the Worlds" alien spaceship.

. . . . side emitting PR base bulb pictured on Flashlightreviews.com.


That's what i have in mine. ^ ^ ^


Didn't realize there has been a "design change".


Thank you for that info. :thumbsup:

_

saabgoblin said:

I haven't had to hold a flashlight in my mouth ever since I have made the switch, very freeing and much safer in my opinion.

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DAAAAANG I thought holding a flashlight in your mouth was one of the primary use positions!

hei okbohn - your comment set of the idea lightbulb. Some one needs to invent
the cigar flashlight! It smokes like a normal cigar but throws photons
like a fenix. Sort of a single use illuminator and nicotine delivery system in one.
hopkins