How far does Arctic Alumina Adhesive Go?

nightstalker101

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I am putting on a flashlight building night for my Boy Scout Troop and I need to know how much Arctic Alumina Adhesive I will need for 20 SSC P4's and 6 SSC P7's. I would hope I need now less than two of the 5g orders but thought I'd check first.

So, about how many LED's can be mounted with the 5grams of Arctic Alumina. Thanks
 

saabluster

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I am putting on a flashlight building night for my Boy Scout Troop and I need to know how much Arctic Alumina Adhesive I will need for 20 SSC P4's and 6 SSC P7's. I would hope I need now less than two of the 5g orders but thought I'd check first.

So, about how many LED's can be mounted with the 5grams of Arctic Alumina. Thanks
I would say two would be enough. You could probably get away with one but if you have never used the stuff you may start off losing some to waste as you figure out how long you have before it sets up and how much it takes. It sets up fairly fast so do not mix a whole bunch at a time.
 

Sabrewolf

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I would say two would be enough. You could probably get away with one but if you have never used the stuff you may start off losing some to waste as you figure out how long you have before it sets up and how much it takes. It sets up fairly fast so do not mix a whole bunch at a time.


Also, if you mix it Cold, it will take longer to set-up.
Thus, Giving you longer to work with it. That can be
an advantage if your new to the stuff. And, if you heat
it up by turning on your light, you can temper it to
stay put. Just do that for several seconds, and no longer.
Then turn off the light and let it set for at least an hour.
Then you can go play!

Super:poof:
 

thegeek

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If you have enough time, it might be to your advantage to use the Fujik thermal compound from DX. You get 50ml for ~$8 if I remember correctly. Probably not quite as high quality as Arctic Alumina, but it should be more than sufficient. As it is pre-mixed you won't have to worry about mixing up 30 small batches and then rushing to use it. Just a thought.
 

Illum

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if your mounting emitters 5 grams might do fine, stars I'd consider at least two

Aif you heat it up by turning on your light, you can temper it to stay put.

I did not know this, I've always fought it by either clamping/taping/screwing the parts together and hope that when it cures whatever I happen to be mounting had not moved:shakehead
 

Sabrewolf

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if your mounting emitters 5 grams might do fine, stars I'd consider at least two



I did not know this, I've always fought it by either clamping/taping/screwing the parts together and hope that when it cures whatever I happen to be mounting had not moved:shakehead


Yeah Yeah, i know i'am full of strange information :grin2:
 

Gryloc

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nightstalker101,

If you let the Scouts wait until they finish in two or three groups, you may be able to make a single set of epoxy tubes (2.5g each part) last. Each emitter takes about as much as what you would see in a dot that is made up of maybe two cubic millimeters (or less). If you have one of those little applicator sticks that come with the epoxy tubes, you just need to get a little bit on the end of it, and apply a very thin coating on the bottom of the slug. The P7 emitters would take maybe twice as much as what would actually coat the bottom of a P4 emitter. I would reccomend that you be the one who does the epoxy work, or train another leader. I guess maybe let some of the older Scouts try, but the ones that do not have the patience or maybe the motor skills, just ask that you do that one part so it the emitter will stay, and not burn up for having too much of a layer. If each emitter is done properly, then I think that you would find that you will have much epoxy left for many projects down the road. I attached 18 old K2s to a heatsink with the two 2.5g tubes with plenty to spare. I may have used the same set of tubes to do the second 18 K2 project.

Maybe a second set could be had on hand just in case of an emergency, or when you want to have two groups work at the same time. I can see someone push hard on the plunger of Part B to get some out, then they try to do the same for the easy-flowing Part A, and it squirts out like a gram worth of that expensive epoxy. I can especially see an adult do such a thing. :p

If you are able (as it depends on the project), you can set the heatsink in a shallow tub of hot water. For my odd project (two large heatsinks with 18 K2 emitters on each), I was trying to epoxy several emitters to a single, large, finned heatsink. I made a very shallow bath of hot water and set the heatsink in there. The heat conducted through the metal fins to the base where the LED emitters sat. The base got pretty warm and stayed warm for a long period of time. The epoxy set pretty quickly I believe, but I let it sit for an hour afterwards anyways. You may be able to do something similar if you are trying to epoxy an emitter to a removable heatsink (like a single emitter heatsink for a Maglite). Your results may vary (I am not sure if any steam or added humidity would affect the process).

I would like to say that your troop is the luckiest in the world for each child to have the opportunity to build a high power flashlight (or mod a flashlight). I dream that I could summon the funds to have my local troop do something similar. When I participate and help out, I usually have the chance to show off a few of my own creations. I usually grab the interests of several Scouts, and they often come to me to ask to borrow a light. One of them likes to experiment with making lanterns and modifying flashlights, but he has yet to dive in the LED world (just incans). I could never stand when I see one of them try to navigate in the dark with stock mini-mag or comparable (or nothing). I wish that I could afford to buy them all atleast a built light that is pretty durable and of high quality (the Romison G2 would be great I think). :thinking:

Can I ask what you have in store for the Scouts? Is it a DD mod of a simple light, or is there any sort of extra electronics? I am assuming that you are using the P7s for the leaders' mods (a basic 3 C or D Mag or similar). Please tell! If you do not mind explaining, it could be a relatively cheap project to be replicated with other non-enlightened troops. It would put the single 5mm LED, resistor, and 9V battery project to shame! Have fun and good luck! Thanks. :twothumbs

Cheers,
-Tony
 

nightstalker101

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Well, I'm 17 and I'm turning 18 at the end of the month. I started with a G2 and then built an ROP and a Mag5761. Then recently I made a 2D P7. Everyone in my troop knows I always have a bright light on campouts.

Anywho, The scouts had several options for flashlights to build. They were all based on 3C or 3Ds. They are going to use SSC P4 U bins with one of the AMC7135 circuit bourds from Kia. They had the option for the 350mah, 700mah, 1050mah, or 1400mah. All of them selected the 1050mah or the 1400mah. I also had some options for the P7 Mag and there are a few adults select a 4D P7 mag with kia's driver.

The setups for the scouts cost about $16 plus they can provide a maglite or I can supply them for $16.

And the P7 setups cost $46 for the 4D plus they need to get a maglite.

I have 18 scouts doing the SSC P4 setup and 5 adults doing the SSC P7 setup. Hopefully everything turns out alright.

nightstalker101,

Can I ask what you have in store for the Scouts? Is it a DD mod of a simple light, or is there any sort of extra electronics? I am assuming that you are using the P7s for the leaders' mods (a basic 3 C or D Mag or similar). Please tell! If you do not mind explaining, it could be a relatively cheap project to be replicated with other non-enlightened troops. It would put the single 5mm LED, resistor, and 9V battery project to shame! Have fun and good luck! Thanks. :twothumbs

Cheers,
-Tony
 

Gryloc

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nightstalker101,

That is good for you for bringing up this project (and it makes sense for the Scouts to pay). It is especially great due to your youth as well. I wish I could have inspired more to become "enlightened" at such an age. :grin2: It would be neat to see images of some of the finished products, especially the P7 Mags. :rock:

Good luck with the projects. The prices seem pretty decent, especially since many Scouts will probably take an old Mag from home to fix up. It is a wonderful thing how the price per performance/efficiency of LEDs and related parts are at a really nice point these days. Now the other troops in your county will be jealous on your next council-wide outing. :laughing: Everything should be fun for them, and it should be a great project will keep them busy for the entire meeting. Are there any Scouts who will not be participating? I hope not. Our troop has some Scouts with un-involved parents who would not pay over $15 for their kids to do something fun. It is so unfortunate for the child, and it is quite the bummer, really. :crazy: Well, that happens. Now, I may have to re-think such a project for our troop. Hmmmm. :thinking: Again, have fun.

Cheers,
-Tony
 
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mikel81

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nightstalker101,

That is good for you for bringing up this project (and it makes sense for the Scouts to pay). It is especially great due to your youth as well. I wish I could have inspired more to become "enlightened" at such an age. :grin2: It would be neat to see images of some of the finished products, especially the P7 Mags. :rock:


+1, it is nice to see you spreading the mod love :cool: especially with the young'ns. (my 3 and 4 year olds carry flashlights)

I too would be interested in seeing pics of the event.

Have fun!

-Mike
 

nightstalker101

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I'll post some pics once we're done, its going to be a while cause I'm ordering from kia and I placed the order yesterday. I may start another thread for this once we're done. Thanks for all of the input as well.

Does anyone see any potential problems with the LED and driver combination? Thanks
 

nightstalker101

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I finally finished the last two lights last night. I encountered several problems durring this project and I'll try to post pictures and start another thread in a week or so.
 

yellow

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bad You did not see my constant postings against thermal glue.

better way: use thermal paste
it is easier to place the led and does not cure, so removing the led, or improving its placing, ..., is much easier.
Also it forms a thinner heat barrier than glue.
When the led are positionned correctly, use normal epoxy glue around the led body (or the star, but with star better use screws) to fix them.

easier placing, better heat transfer, much cheaper, better with Your big number of lights (all planned to be finished by the individual users, when I got that right) because the cure time is enlarged and because that time is not so critical, as the led are already placed.
 

nightstalker101

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The epoxy worked fine. The major problem was kia's P7 driver which is rated for 5.5v and up and four D alkalines had so much voltage sag the driver would sut off. So I had to make a custom P7 bourd using a 5 mode 1amp driver and a 1400mah 7135 driver.

Also, the soldering was harder for the scouts than expected and alot of the project ended up being done by myself. However, We were able to complete all of the lights and the scouts are all happy with the end result.
 

Gryloc

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This is good to hear that you finished successfully. Drivers can be tricky sometimes depending on battery chemistry. That is okay if some couldn't solder. I bet they are happy they have a working light in their hands afterwards!

I am glad the thermal epoxy is holding. It should work for less than critical tasks as these. The emitters wont die immediately since you didn't use the paste and external glue, but maybe the performance suffered a little (probably not noticeable). You have to use what you have...

I cannot wait until you show some of the finished projects. Could you post a link to the new thread from here? Thanks. It would be neat to see a group beamshot :twothumbs. I bet the scouts would be glad to show off their power mags on their next camporee. Poor other scouts with their genuine BSA squeeze incan lights and old mini-mags. lol .Happy modding!

Cheers,
-Tony
 

nightstalker101

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Ok, our next campout is our annual week long summer camp and it is on july 19-25. I'll be sure to get pictures then and I will post them in a new thread soon after that.

I will also post a link in this thread for the new one.

Thank you for your intrest
 

Justin Case

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I can give you a calculated estimate and an operational estimate.

Calculated:

AA Epoxy comes in two 1.5cc tubes (3cc total). When I've glued SSC P4 emitters onto heat sinks, the AA Epoxy covers approx a 9.5mm diam circle. The epoxy thickness is about 0.2mm. That gives a volume of 14 mm^3, or 0.014 cc. If you were 100% efficient in using the AA Epoxy (zero waste), you could glue about 200 emitters. Apply your own guess at your efficiency in using the epoxy to come up with a more realistic estimate.

Operational:

I've glued 15 emitters using AA Epoxy. In doing so, I've used up 0.25cc in each tube. That translates to gluing about 90 emitters before running out of epoxy. That suggests that I wasted about 50% of my epoxy, which is probably about right.

1400mA seems a little high to drive an SSC P4. I would have recommended #1 1050mA (3xAMC7135) or #2 700mA (2xAMC7135). At 700mA drive current, the SSC P4 Vf could be low enough to warrant removal of the diodes on the AMC7135 board to ensure running in regulation.

For low Vf LEDs, with the AMC7135 Vdd pin fed through a diode, Vf has to be greater than 2.7V (Vdd min for an AMC7135) + diode drop (I've measured approx 0.55V on my DX 3xAMC7135 boards), or Vf > 3.25V to stay in regulation. If you remove the diodes, then Vf > 2.7V. But you'll benefit from this condition only if you have a low Vf LED (which as stated above, could be the case for a P4 driven at 700mA -- I've measured Vf between 3.3V and 3.4V at 1000mA drive current for several P4 U2SWOH-bin LEDs).
 
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