Please, not another Mag 2D!

Yes, another Maglite 2D....

So I have a 2D, one of the older incandescent ones. It's just sitting around the house. I had put one of the Nite-ize LED bulbs in it, but it still didn't do much, so it went back on the shelf long ago.

Since I already have the light, how about doing a mod, to make it worthy for use at work? I've been reading and searching the forums for about two days now and there's tons of stuff, tons of ideas, mods & suggestions, but I still need to put it down, so I can figure it out for myself and maybe get my questions answered.

Goals:
1.- A "Drop-In" bulb. I'm thinking Incandescent due to costs, but I have to weigh in LED because they last a long time (so I read) and because the Incandescents either don't have the lumens or the heat from the big incans will fry the plastic reflector & lens. Is that correct?

2.- A battery pack using six AA NiMh cells, to produce higher voltage. I've seen the pictures of the holders here and they're great, but I want to make it myself as I have for other electronic items. I can make the battery holder and I have gobs of NiMh batteries and chargers, so why not use them. I'm going series/parallel to up the voltage and mah.

3.- Keep the "adjustable focus" feature of the Maglite if at all possible. I like that feature a lot!

4.- A finished light that will be the optimum trade-off of Battery (run time) life and Lumens. That's always one of the biggest questions, more light or more run time. Chicken or Egg?


Ok, that said, here are my thoughts and my quandry.

I know I can buy one of the Halogen or Zenon "Mag replacement" incan bulbs cheap. I know they would be brighter than the stock bulb, but which one? One for 6v or 7.2v? Overpower it or not? See AA NiMh batteries are supposed to be 1.2v but a fresh charged one will hit 1.5v, so with six of them, my battery pack voltage can be anywhere from 7.2v to 9v. That's quite a spread, but it's reality, so which bulb to use? I don't want to flash one every time I turn on a fresh set of batteries.

Also, what are the "real" lumen specs for these incan bulbs? Does anyone know?


One train of thought is to use the LED instead of the incan. There's 2 different ones that are "drop-in" as far as I know. The Malkoff and the TerraLux. Will they take a voltage spread of 7.2v to 9v without hurting them? Will I gain any in the long run considering the initial outlay? What are the "real lumen" numbers for these bulbs? Supposedly the Maglite adjustable focus feature still works with these two mods.?

By "real lumen" numbers I'm thinking of what you get "out the spout" not what the bulb is rated at......

Thanks in advance for your comments and info. I have found such a wealth of info here, that it's a little overwhelming for a novice like me, but slowly (albeit very slowly:shakehead), I'm learning things.

The Malkoff and TerraLUX are indeed your two choices, and either will accept anything between 4.5-9 volts, so you're fine there.

The Malkoff will be notably brighter than the TerraLUX.

The bigger issue is runtime. The figures quoted for both of these drop-ins assume you're using a normal D-cell config, so with AAs, you're looking at a lot less runtime. I don't know of any objective test done with the specific config you're referring to, but I'd say ~2-4 hours would be realistic. But it's a *regulated* 2-4 hours, meaning the light won't dim at all or very little - completely the opposite of a stock Mag that dims gradually for the entirety of its runtime.

StarHalo said:

The Malkoff and TerraLUX are indeed your two choices, and either will accept anything between 4.5-9 volts, so you're fine there.

The Malkoff will be notably brighter than the TerraLUX.

The bigger issue is runtime. The figures quoted for both of these drop-ins assume you're using a normal D-cell config, so with AAs, you're looking at a lot less runtime. I don't know of any objective test done with the specific config you're referring to, but I'd say ~2-4 hours would be realistic. But it's a *regulated* 2-4 hours, meaning the light won't dim at all or very little - completely the opposite of a stock Mag that dims gradually for the entirety of its runtime.

Click to expand...

I never thought that the AA's would give so much less runtime. I was thinking that with the higher voltage (serial) and the higher amperage (parallel), that they would be better than 2 D cells. I was going to use Powerex 2,700mah AA batts and that would give me 16,200mah.... With the D cells, if I use Powerex 10,000mah, it would give me less voltage and less amperage. Yes? No? If the D cells are the way to go, then that's all the better (except I don't get to make a holder:laughing....

jusval said:

2.- A battery pack using six AA NiMh cells, to produce higher voltage.

Click to expand...

I do this automatically to every 2D light I own. The higher voltage with a six cell bulb makes the stock 2D a dim yellow by comparison. There's no going back.

jusval said:

I never thought that the AA's would give so much less runtime. I was thinking that with the higher voltage (serial) and the higher amperage (parallel), that they would be better than 2 D cells. I was going to use Powerex 2,700mah AA batts and that would give me 16,200mah.... With the D cells, if I use Powerex 10,000mah, it would give me less voltage and less amperage. Yes? No? If the D cells are the way to go, then that's all the better (except I don't get to make a holder:laughing....

Click to expand...

Three AA cells fit in the space of one D cell. That is 3 x 2700 mAh vs 1 x 10,000 mAh. Or 8,100 mAh vs 10,000 mAh. The D cell wins. It makes no difference whether you put the AA cells in series or parallel, the total energy is the same.

Mr Happy said:

I do this automatically to every 2D light I own. The higher voltage with a six cell bulb makes the stock 2D a dim yellow by comparison. There's no going back.


Three AA cells fit in the space of one D cell. That is 3 x 2700 mAh vs 1 x 10,000 mAh. Or 8,100 mAh vs 10,000 mAh. The D cell wins. It makes no difference whether you put the AA cells in series or parallel, the total energy is the same.

Click to expand...

Parallel increases amperage, 2,700+2,700+2,700+2,700+2,700+2.700=16,200 All six AA batteries in a six cell holder make a total of 16,200mah and a voltage of 7.2v I would be making a holder for 6 AA batteries, to fit in the 2D body.

Series (two D cells in line in a flashlight), increases voltage, but amperage stays the same.

I believe that's correct, but I could easily be wrong (usually at least once a day).........

If we're going to get technical, you could always have the battery tube quad-bored (or use a tube from a 20+ year-ago Mag) and then use 4AA/1D adapters (then you could even use a cut-down 1D Mag + drop-in.) But the D cell wins hands down for capacity otherwise.

I own a TerraLUX TLE-300 2D Mag powered by a pair of 3AA/1D adapters. I use Energizer Lithiums (which I get when on sale because it'd be too expensive otherwise) to up the voltage for more output, plus a UCL lens. ~11 inches, 600 lumens, ~1 hour runtime.

Hey guys, I am interested in the battery pack that allows 3AA batteries in place of a D cell. Where can you buy something like this from? I would like to do this to my maglite also.

The most popular ready-made options are Kaidomain (http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2723) and Mdocod (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195976) adapters.

The Kaidomain holders are $1.50 a piece but require about a month shipping time. The Mdocod holders are ~$25 each and ship promptly. Mdocod also provides instructions for how to build your own holders if you're the do-it-yourself type.

jusval said:

Parallel increases amperage, 2,700+2,700+2,700+2,700+2,700+2.700=16,200 All six AA batteries in a six cell holder make a total of 16,200mah and a voltage of 7.2v I would be making a holder for 6 AA batteries, to fit in the 2D body.

Series (two D cells in line in a flashlight), increases voltage, but amperage stays the same.

I believe that's correct, but I could easily be wrong (usually at least once a day).........

Click to expand...

If you put those 6 AA cells in parallel to get 16200 mah, then your voltage would not be 7.2V...it would be 1.2V....and vice versa.

One of the many things that makes electricty so freaking beautifully elegant is its duality. Every electrical phenomenon has a cute little partner that perfectly compliments it: Inductance/Capacitance, Series/Parallel, Current/Potential, Electric Fields/Magnetic Fields...and the list goes on.

With a 2D mag, I have done a ROP and 5761 mod on the incan side, and both the malkoff and terralux drop ins on the LED side. I love both incan mods.

Badger_Girl said:

If you put those 6 AA cells in parallel to get 16200 mah, then your voltage would not be 7.2V...it would be 1.2V....and vice versa.

One of the many things that makes electricty so freaking beautifully elegant is its duality. Every electrical phenomenon has a cute little partner that perfectly compliments it: Inductance/Capacitance, Series/Parallel, Current/Potential, Electric Fields/Magnetic Fields...and the list goes on.

With a 2D mag, I have done a ROP and 5761 mod on the incan side, and both the malkoff and terralux drop ins on the LED side. I love both incan mods.

Click to expand...

My plan was to make the holder series and parallel all in one. I've done battery packs that way before and it's no harder than doing one or the other. That gives me both voltage and amperage increases.

Since you have done both and love the incan mods (I like incan from the dollar standpoint), do you have any idea of the output lumens on the incans?

jusval said:

Since you have done both and love the incan mods (I like incan from the dollar standpoint), do you have any idea of the output lumens on the incans?

Click to expand...

The incan mods will give you 1000-1200 lumens, but only on a scale of tens of minutes (with a bulb life of tens of hours, assuming you never drop your Mag). Completely impractical for most any application, but just plain awesome if you want to see how much light you can get out of a Mag for $100-ish.

I have to ask something.

Why is a Malkoff and a couple of Li-ions not in consideration at all?

This is going to be a work light right? Needs to be dependable? Don't drop that terralux! The AA's in a D shell spacer don't give great runtime nor are they a good use of the room you have in there.
I understand the need to save the money but you will be depending on this light to maybe save your butt!

1 drop-in, 1 reflector, 2 batteries, 1 charger.

Will last you many years and when the mag looks rough you just drop the stuff into a new body.

Sgt. LED said:

I have to ask something.

Why is a Malkoff and a couple of Li-ions not in consideration at all?

This is going to be a work light right? Needs to be dependable? Don't drop that terralux! The AA's in a D shell spacer don't give great runtime nor are they a good use of the room you have in there.
I understand the need to save the money but you will be depending on this light to maybe save your butt!

1 drop-in, 1 reflector, 2 batteries, 1 charger.

Will last you many years and when the mag looks rough you just drop the stuff into a new body.

Click to expand...

This is going to be a work light yes...... As far as Lithium, I don't own any batteries of that style, nor any chargers. Added money up front I guess... I didn't read the incan thing right. I wasn't looking for 1,000+ lumens. I was only wondering about the halogen & zenon bulbs that would be a replacement without lens and reflector changes.

"Don't drop that", sort of goes for any of them right? I mean both incan and led can go out from a shock? In the long run, cost wise, for a "daily driver", I imagine the mag halogen or zenon bulb for a 6 D would be the most cost effective, readily available, etc.... But it would still require the AA set-up, or some type of lithium because of voltage? Lithium will cost to purchase new. AA I have and I've got stuff to build the holder for AA. All it will require a little time and I've got way too much of that floating around.

I guess the things I don't know about the replacement incans (mag replacement) are the lumen output and the longevity. I see the LED are long lived, long run time and so they do appeal to me, except that cost of a "spare' for when I bust the first one......

jusval said:

I guess the things I don't know about the replacement incans (mag replacement) are the lumen output and the longevity.

Click to expand...

The current Mag-brand Xenon bulbs for a 6D Mag will output ~225 lumens initially. The problem is regulation - since the circuit is direct-drive and relies on the batteries fading under load, you're looking at the light dimming very quickly to 50% *within the first hour*, with a long, slow decline thereafter. So a 6D Mag actually averages < 100 lumens. (note this runtime graph for an illustration: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_3d.htm )

LED lights have no such limitation. Using a regulation circuit, the brightness you get when you first turn the light on is what you get for nearly all the runtime. So the Malkoff, for example, when first turned on in a 6D Mag begins at 240 lumens, then eight hours later is ...240 lumens.

jusval said:

I see the LED are long lived, long run time and so they do appeal to me, except that cost of a "spare' for when I bust the first one......

Click to expand...

You have to do something pretty heinous to most LED lights to get them to break, and usually it's a solder or contact point somewhere that breaks, not the LED.

jusval said:

My plan was to make the holder series and parallel all in one. I've done battery packs that way before and it's no harder than doing one or the other. That gives me both voltage and amperage increases.

Click to expand...

I am not quite sure what you mean here, it's still either/or. You can't increase your current capacity 6-fold to 16,200 mAh while also increasing your voltage 6 fold to 7.2V. If you want an easier comparison, try Wh for approximate comparison. 2 NiMH D-cell x 1.2V x 10,000 mAh = 24 Wh vs. 6 NiMH AA x 1.2V x 2,700 mAh = 19.44 Wh. I see the main benefit being that AA batteries are cheaper to buy, but you are certainly not getting more juice.

jusval said:

My plan was to make the holder series and parallel all in one.

I've done battery packs that way before and it's no harder than doing one or the other. That gives me both voltage and amperage increases.

Click to expand...

With 6 cells, your ONLY possible combinations are:

6 parallel - 16.2 Ah @ 1.2V
3 parallel, 2 series - 8.1 Ah @ 2.4V
2 parallel, 3 series - 5.4Ah @ 3.6V
6 series - 2.7Ah @ 7.2V

With a very complicated battery carrier you may be able to SWITCH the wiring from series to parallel, but the total amount of energy (Ah * V) wil be constant. If you try to wire the batteries in series and parallel at the same time, you will short circuit all of them.

What you are describing (16.2Ah @ 7.2V) is only possible with 36 cells in a 6-series, 6-parallel configuration.

"Don't drop that", sort of goes for any of them right? I mean both incan and led can go out from a shock? In the long run, cost wise, for a "daily driver", I imagine the mag halogen or zenon bulb for a 6 D would be the most cost effective, readily available, etc.... But it would still require the AA set-up, or some type of lithium because of voltage? Lithium will cost to purchase new. AA I have and I've got stuff to build the holder for AA. All it will require a little time and I've got way too much of that floating around.

Click to expand...

In general, LEDs can be made completely shock-resistant. However, the "bulb drop in" LED modules such as the Terralux are particularly flimsy due to trying to cram the LED and associated circuits into such a small package. LEDs are also sensitive to heat buildup, and the drop-in bulbs have no way to dissipate heat. This is why dropins suhc as the Mag LED start out bright then ramp down as they heat up -- if they didn't do this, the components would literally overheat.

A dropin like the Malkoff however has a rather beefy heatsink, and generous space for a driver board (which is completely potted), thus it will be durable enough to survive drops, capable of running brighter (due to heat sink pathway) And less likely to fail due to overheated components.

jusval said:

My plan was to make the holder series and parallel all in one. I've done battery packs that way before and it's no harder than doing one or the other. That gives me both voltage and amperage increases.

Click to expand...

It's completely impossible to do this. Really. If you find a way to do it you should publish it and you will win the Nobel prize for physics.

http://polarpowerinc.com/info/operation20/operation25.htm

One example and there's a ton of information on the web about sereis/parallel. I wired a D cell battery pack for a camera hip pack that way and got the voltage and amperage with a tester. Now if that doesn't work, please explain how all these sites and the pack I made doesn't work.... I'm not getting it here.....

Batteries in series and Parallel
Batteries, like photovoltaic cells, can be connected in series to increase the voltage. They can be connected in parallel to increase the amp-hour capacity of the battery system. Interconnected groups of batteries are usually called "battery banks" (Figure 2-56).
Connecting batteries in both series and parallel will increase the voltage and the amp-hour capacity.


Of course I think I just found what I was missing............... Never Mind..........

So now that I "see the light", I guess the Nobel prize is out! Well at least I'm still in the running for the Grumpy old Man prize.

So, since the AA thing is out, what's the next best thing to achieve somewhere between 7.2 0 9v ?

Lithium ?

It's still worthwhile to put the 6 AA's in series to get the higher voltage and run a 6 cell bulb. You will get about 2 hours of run time on NiMH rechargeables, and it does make a world of difference compared to a 2D bulb.