I love my M60 Malkoff but...

I love my M60, but I notice that towards the end of the beam's usefulness, things just BLEND in in the woods. If I was looking for a coyote/hog, it well might blend in as the light "grays out" sorta (ok, I suck at this, but you know what I mean.

Would an M60W at "only" 170 lumens be more effective at 75-100m just due to color-rendering, or is it more of the same?

Well, I just ordered an M60W. Thanks a lot guys. This forum drains my wallet like it was a cheap PRC battery.

I will sell whichever one I do choose not to put on my weapon.

Have no such problem...

for me the problems with M60 are these

1. Single mode, reliable but..

2. Cuts out suddenly on Li-Ion cells (protected)

3. Expensive on 123 cells

The runtime is OK but not great. Over 2 hours with 18500 cells.

Bring spares.

etc said:

Have no such problem...

for me the problems with M60 are these

1. Single mode, reliable but..

I am a fan of KISS. I only want a single mode.
2. Cuts out suddenly on Li-Ion cells (protected)
I am running Surefire CR123A's
3. Expensive on 123 cells
I won't use it enough for that to matter.
The runtime is OK but not great. Over 2 hours with 18500 cells.
1.5 hours is more than plenty for my use.
Bring spares.

Click to expand...

I am just looking for better rendition of colors/objects at the 75-100m distance out-doors. I am using an optic that gathers sick amounts of light (I see better through my ACOG RCO A4 without the anti-reflective device in it at night than I do at night with my un-aided eye) and this does help, but the warm color rendition of an INcan with battery life, focus, and durability of LED is my goal.

For now the M60 W is as close as you'll get. I'm betting when the beam gets "out there" you'll find it performs better. I don't have one yet but judging by a surefire P60 at a mere 65 lumens compared to the similarly rated P60L, the color temp makes a HUGE difference in contrast at a distance. At the very least it shouldn't create as much haze/light scatter like a cool white emitter will. It's really amazing how far led's have come since a few years ago. Heck, when the M60 was getting popular it was praised for its warm creamy tint compared to other led lights, and as far as I know Genes still using the same tint in standard m60s.

The W's are probably Q2 or Q3 flux at 5A tint, I've got the Dereelight Q3 5A module and can say from personal experience that it does help outdoors at a distance of 50m or more, nice warm circle of light.

In comparison with the DBS I bought for my brother though, I'd take the additional throw. When you can put that many lumens in the same place downrange, the color just doesn't make as much of a difference.

with regards to color rendition, I have no complaints, IMO M60 strikes the perfect balance.

It sounds like you need a light with more throw. You could try something like the Dereelight DBS V2, HID, etc.

Yeah a smooth reflector'ed Deerelight will reach out there further for sure.

The Deerelight P60 LED's can be had in the warm tint as well. :twothumbs

Sgt. LED said:

Yeah a smooth reflector'ed Deerelight will reach out there further for sure.

The Deerelight P60 LED's can be had in the warm tint as well. :twothumbs

Click to expand...

Being as this light will be weapon mounted, I really REALLY like the Malkoff's solid-state electronics.

I am with you!
That's what is on MY rifle. :twothumbs That's probably the way it is going to stay too.

Malkoff is not the furthest throwing but you can always depend on it.

Sgt. LED said:

I am with you!
That's what is on MY rifle. :twothumbs That's probably the way it is going to stay too.

Malkoff is not the furthest throwing but you can always depend on it.

Click to expand...

Precisely. My main hope is that my M60W will have more throw outside than my M60. By more throw, I mean the distance at which I can distinguish animal from tree will be increased.

Is hunting with an artificial light legal where you live?

Justin Case said:

Is hunting with an artificial light legal where you live?

Click to expand...

Is OP hunting animals? Maybe two legged types?:devil:

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

Is OP hunting animals? Maybe two legged types?:devil:

Bill

Click to expand...

The only "animals" that will be hunted would be hogs, and they are considered vermin and there are no laws governing their harvest.

N/Apower said:

Being as this light will be weapon mounted, I really REALLY like the Malkoff's solid-state electronics.

Click to expand...

All the electronics used are "solid state" as in there are no vacuum tubes being used in LED flashlight driver technology. I am sure you meant to say solidified potted module. In essence the pill is one solid epoxy brick making it very rugged and reliable. I concur.

I have seen the spectrum of the warm modules on WBPs spectral radiometer, very nice goes well into the red spectrum but its definitely less bright.

etc said:

Have no such problem...

for me the problems with M60 are these....

....Cuts out suddenly on Li-Ion cells (protected)

Click to expand...

You can't blame the M60 for that. All rechargable protected cells will do that.

Good responses here. But, I am also wondering, if anyone can for certain say from comparing the two, how much throw difference IS there between the M60 & the M60W?

M60 = 235
M60W = 170

Though there is a considerable lumens variation, how much does that affect the throw between the 2?

In general, throw is dictated not just by the lumens rating, but also by the beam pattern. In particular, throw is affected by how focused the hot spot is. A simple example is a 100 lumen spot beam vs a 100 lumen flood beam. A complicating factor is that in outdoor applications, "warm" LEDs seem to work better in things like foliage than "cool" LEDs.

With the M60 vs M60W, presumably the beam patterns are identical, so the hot spot intensity probably is related to the lumens rating and probably in the same ratio. Also, the warm vs cool LED color might offset the difference in total lumens. But let's ignore that for the moment.

If you knew the lux value for the hot spot, you could try to estimate the relative difference in throw by assuming spherical expansion of the beam (essentially an inverse square law). For example, if the M60's hot spot is measured at 6000 lux at 1 meter, then we might assume that the M60W's hot spot is 4340 lux at 1 meter (based on a 170 lumens rating for the M60W vs 235 lumens for the M60). Then

Beam Hot Spot (Lux) M60 Corresponding Distance (m) M60W Corresponding Distance (m)
1000 2.4 2.1
100 7.7 6.6
10 24 21
1 77 66

The ratio of the M60W range vs M60 range for a given amount of lux is sqrt(170/235) ~ 0.85 for our assumptions of an inverse square law and that the beam patterns for the two drop-ins are identical. Thus, the M60W has about 15% less throw than the M60, while the difference in lumens is ~28%.

Moon light ranges from 1-10 lux, for comparison.

So, if it takes 1 lux to see something, then the M60 can deliver the 1 lux out to 77 meters while the M60W can reach out to 66 meters (for our hypothetical M60 hot spot of 6000 lux at 1 meter and M60W hot spot of 4340 lux at 1 meter).

prof student said:

Good responses here. But, I am also wondering, if anyone can for certain say from comparing the two, how much throw difference IS there between the M60 & the M60W?

M60 = 235
M60W = 170

Though there is a considerable lumens variation, how much does that affect the throw between the 2?

Click to expand...

Using a Surefire bezel, the M60W should be around 185 lumens, and the M60 measured out at 220-ish lumens. That is about 35 lumens difference but the warmer M60W SHOULD throw better I would think. I hope so. We will see. Either way, I will sell whichever one I don't need and doubt I take much of a hit on it either.

Well if you want to sell the warm off, just let me know.