EX10 vs. LF3XT - Opinions ?

For those of you that have both lights, can you comment on your opinions on how these lights compare, which one you prefer and why ?

I am awaiting my LF3XT and by the sounds of the posts so far it's a great light. I love my EX10 but miss the strobe mode...

Bud

I guess you will soon find out which is better, if you have already ordered the LF3XT. Except for the missing clip, I don't think you will miss anything with the LF3XT. I like both lights, but the LF3XT is so much better in many ways.

For starters, the beam of the LF3XT is so smooth. Even if you have the GD plus version of the EX10, the LF3XT has a much smoother beam. There is no other single cell Q5 flashlight that can match its beam.

In its simple interface mode, similar to the EX10's, the LF3XT never loses its user defined mode setting after shortcut high and low, and it has intelligent ramping. If your light output is less than 50 percent, your first PH begins by ramping upward. If your light output is more, it begins by ramping downward. It never requires 2 presses when you are extreme minimum or high to get it to ramp. The switch on the LF3XT is totally electronic and operates with very little pressure; it ends the sore thumbs and misfirings that some people complain about with the EX10.

The LF3XT has a momentary that you toggle on and off with a 4C command. There is no twisting or untwisting of the head.

The LF3XT gives you a battery voltage report under load. It outperforms more expensive battery testers like the ZTS.

Besides all this, of course, you have the full function interface that gives you that strobe you are missing, with choices of 8 different frequencies, and infinite brightness possibilities. Or perhaps you might prefer a blinking beacon, also with 8 different patterns and frequencies. Of course there is SOS that you can also customize to any brightness level you want. You can make your full function light as simple or as elaborate as you want. Select 1 mode or 5. Retain the memory of the last used mode, or not; the choice is yours. In the full function mode, you also have instant random strobe, or instant high with either a C+PH or a PH.

Finally, the icing on the cake will come with the soon to be offered accessory of a 2-AA battery tube, which will allow you the flexibility to use easier to find primaries and to increase your runtimes. But if you wish to use rechargable lithiums, the flashlight offers multiple internal protection modes that let you use unprotected cells as well as protected ones.

There are two things that would prevent me from getting a LF3XT, lack of a clip and rather poor run time for the output. Pity because otherwise I think it might be my ideal EDC.

*edit* It looks like light-reviews.com gets rather low run time results compared to other places. Has anyone else done run time tests on the LF3XT?

I guess light-reviews didn't think the runtimes were all that bad. Otherwise, I don't think they would have given this light one of the highest ratings they have ever given any light.
Even in their summary of the lights worst features, they don't list bad runtime as an issue. I, too, would like to see other reviews on this light, because I don't think LiteFlux gets the credit it deserves with just the one review. I would like to see Self-Built or some other CPF reviewer we trust do a review of this light. IMO, it really should be reviewed, because it is a great light within the financial reach of a lot of people. If it was one of the blue chip brands, I'll bet it would have been given more attention by this time.

I do agree with you about the clip. There is a good chance, however, we will have a clip for this light. One CPFer, in another thread, said he will eventually be selling a titanium clip for this light. (Remember, too, when the EX10 came out there was no clip for it, either. Need I remind you, too, that when the Notac was introduced it also didn't have a clip.)

The data on light-reviews tells me that the LF3XT is more efficient than the EX10. At 100% output for each light with primary batteries the LF3XT is producing ~3000 lux, the EX10 produces ~2500 lux. Yet the EX10 is only getting 4 extra minutes to 50% output. If everything is behaving in a linear fashion, which is all we can assume, the LF3XT wins.

Geoff

BabyDoc said:

I guess light-reviews didn't think the runtimes were all that bad. Remember, too, when the EX10 came out there was no clip for it, either

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I know, and when I got my Extreme I was amazed at how much more convenient it was to carry despite being larger. After that I'll never EDC a light that doesn't have a clip again.

Flying Turtle said:

The data on light-reviews tells me that the LF3XT is more efficient than the EX10. At 100% output for each light with primary batteries the LF3XT is producing ~3000 lux, the EX10 produces ~2500 lux. Yet the EX10 is only getting 4 extra minutes to 50% output. If everything is behaving in a linear fashion, which is all we can assume, the LF3XT wins.

Geoff

Click to expand...

My comment on run-times was made in comparison to the Extreme which has a brighter spot (40%) and spill (15%) and slightly longer run time (23%). Also, looking at the RCR (I use RCR's almost all the time) run times the EX-10 runs 44 min compared to 30 min.

I've noticed however that with the EX-10 there is an active cooling and a passive cooling run, the EX10 does much better with passive cooling. This makes my think that maybe the LF3XT run time suffers because it's too small for it's drive levels to be run continuously without active cooling. That's why I wanted to know if other testing had been done where cooling was addressed.

Eitherway I'm currently EDCing a C2H which has horrendous run time (~20 min on high) but it's a rocket easily out throwing my Extreme which producing a much bigger spot. If the LF3XT can produce better run times and a smoother beam I think I'd consider that a worthwhile balance. Now they just need a clip and I'll consider one.

IMO, it is too good of light just to pass up because of not having a clip. I was going to wait for a clip before ordering one. I am glad I didn't. Again, just like with the EX10, and Novatacs, a clip should be forthcoming. IMO, the runtime is comparable to most lights of its brightness level and battery type that I own. If it runs a few minutes less on Max than the Extreme, I am not sure that means anything in practical terms.

Besides that, the runtimes reported in light-reviews are probably not accurate. Mev (the light-review reviewer" stated in the light-review forum: "I think there is some inconsistencies with my current sample in hand. As you can see from the following test data, output performance doesn't seem right." What he was referring to was the runtimes versus the brightness levels graph. He posted the same runtime graph in his final review.

Later, in the forum, after a discussion about a possible faulty reflector, which turned out not to be the case, he stated he changed drivers in his LF3XT and improved the brightness substantially. Yet, his runtime graph vs brightness in his review was not changed.

I had the EX10, not the LF3XT.

I got rid of the EX10 because it loses the user defined output (UDO) when switching to low or high. That means every time you leave the UDO, you'll have to reset via reramping. Then the other problems come in: it is very easy to accidentally change outputs, and I hear people don't like the ramping time (I didn't find this a big deal since I didn't plan on ramping often). I think I would have been happier with the UI of NDI.

I also have read that the tube of the EX10 can be damaged easily if dropped. I don't see the thickness to be any different than my Fenix P3D, so who knows? Not sure how often this really happens. And maybe if it did, you can buy a tube really cheap to replace.

The EX10 form factor and quality are great. Love the size and fits nicely in jeans.

The clip for me is mandatory. The clip for the EX10 is slim and works extremely well. It keeps the light right where I can always find it. It keeps the light from being horizontal in my pockets. I can also tuck the light in my waistband. It also keeps the light from banging around in my pocket.

It may be possible that the LF3XT will have a clip. The design does leave the clip to some imagination. People have faith that it will be figured out. But, I don't know how good the clip will be. I hate the Eagletac clip. It's bulky and sticks out way too far. Not something I like holding in my hand either. The EX10 clip is slim and comfortable.

Basic summary:
EX10 - Bad: UDO issues.
EX10 - Good: Clip
LF3XT - Bad: No clip. If a clip comes out, it may be as bad as the Eagletac, and I won't buy this light.
LF3XT - Good: People love the UI over EX10.

I'm holding out on the LF3XT until a clip is available. Perhaps by that time there will be another competitor or the EX10 will have a version 2.

I'm a very selective consumer and hate settling for poor thought. I have other poor thought lights, and don't need to add others at the EX10/LF3XT price. Both lights could have been true premium lights if they had put some more thought into it.

Jake

snakyjake said:

I'm a very selective consumer and hate settling for poor thought. I have other poor thought lights, and don't need to add others at the EX10/LF3XT price. Both lights could have been true premium lights if they had put some more thought into it.

Jake

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I'm right with you. At EX-10 is a great light with some little flaws that bug me. Knowing that they could be easily corrected makes it even worse.

I almost pulled the trigger on a LF5XT but held off due to the lack of a clip and the fact that it's rather long. Now with it's simplified UI option and smaller size the LF3XT is even more tempting. I may get one even without a clip, but I really hope they make a clip for it.

I came to the same conclusion as BabyDoc. The LF3XT just sounded too slick to wait for the clip. I nearly went for the EX10, partly because it had a clip, but kept seeing increasing numbers of complaints about flakey operation. Sure glad I made the other choice. At least this time of year I usually have coat pockets for it.

After about 2 weeks now playing with this light on one of the included batteries the 100% looks the same as the 50%. It's reporting 2.5 v. on high. I guess it's time for a new one, and I probably should finally hand it over to my wife to wrap up for Christmas. I'm tempted to leave the old battery and turn it on in low slow beacon, just to see if it's still blinking when I open it on Christmas morning.

Geoff

Flying Turtle said:

The data on light-reviews tells me that the LF3XT is more efficient than the EX10. At 100% output for each light with primary batteries the LF3XT is producing ~3000 lux, the EX10 produces ~2500 lux. Yet the EX10 is only getting 4 extra minutes to 50% output. If everything is behaving in a linear fashion, which is all we can assume, the LF3XT wins.

Geoff

Click to expand...

If the two lights had the EXACT same beam pattern, then light-reviews.com's method for lux measurments would be a reasonable way to compare output, but SELFBUILT's methods are better because he uses a lightbox and also uses celing bounce methods to measure output.

I agree that there could be inconsistencies because of methods of testing. While the beams of these two lights are not exactly the same, I'd bet they are pretty close. Since reflectors are essentially the same size and both are orange-peel finish, differences should be minimal in regards to measurement. I'm satisfied we're getting decent relative numbers in most cases, at least for similar lights. Maybe someday we'll have regular reviews with integrating sphere data. I am looking forward to seeing the opinions of our other great reviewers.

Geoff

P.S. Thanks to MrGman for the IS data he's been collecting.

snakyjake said:

EX10/LF3XT price. Both lights could have been true premium lights if they had put some more thought into it.

Jake

Click to expand...

Regarding the EX10, I agree with you that more thought should have been put into the interface, especially with regard to lost user defined mode settings when shortcutting to high or low, and problems with the difficult PD switching and ramping.

But come on, Jake! Are you saying the LiteFlux didn't put enough thought into the LF3XT, just because they introduced a light without first designing a clip??? You can't mean that, can you, when even Novatac and EX10 didn't have clips to start with? What makes a light a true premium light? Just a clip? That can't possibly be.

IMO, the LF3XT is as true a premium light as you can get today. It gives you just about everything you could imagine, with features not thought of or found in any other light, regardless of price. For example, how many lights that you know of give a battery condition report under load? How many lights offer a choice of two totally different interfaces? How many lights let you choose how many modes you need from 1 to 5? How many lights let you adjust modes as an exact percentage of total output and give you a brightness report letting you know exactly what you level you set? How many single cell lights do you know of that have a Q5 beam that is absolutely smooth, with no artifacts. How many lights let you choose to operate strobe or beacon modes with infinite brightness settings, and many frequency options?

It seems to me that LiteFlux did a whole lot of thinking, particularly when they figured out how to bring such a full featured, and well built light to market at a price most flashaholics can afford. This light is a premium light but at a very reasonable cost. It is even packaged in a classy wood box with a neat lanyard, O-rings, and silicone lube. For all these reasons, light-reviews gave the LF3XT the highest value rating it has granted any light, 9.5/10, even without a clip. Is this light perfect? No but it's darn close. Outside of a missing clip, the instruction manual needs a lot of improvement.

BabyDoc said:

But come on, Jake! Are you saying the LiteFlux didn't put enough thought into the LF3XT, just because they introduced a light without first designing a clip???

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I actually said "put some more thought into it". They both certainly put a lot of thought and effort into the light, but they miss some of the simple stuff. I'm a tough consumer and critic. I have high expectations when I see the word premium and quality. I think some of the designers forget some of the simple stuff; like how will the user carry the light? Or how is the user going to feel when they lose their user defined output when the switch to low/high, and have to do the whole re-ramping again?

It's simple stuff. The way EDC lights are carried remind me of knives. Some are carried in the pocket. Some are in sheaths/holsters carried on the belt. Some have clips. I don't know anyone who carries a moderate sized knife or CR123/AA light on a lanyard. All people I know who EDC a knife have it on a clip, attached to their front pocket.

I could be wrong about the clip. Perhaps more people want it in a holster, swinging on a lanyard, or laying uncomfortably in their pocket, or carry it in a coat or bag (which I don't consider EDC).

Whether or not they will offer a clip is unknown. We hope they do. And when they do, we hope it's a good clip design (EageleTac's clip sucks...too bulky for a compact light).

For me, the light is a complete package. If there never will be a clip, I won't buy it. When a clip does come out, I'll probably buy it, unless a competitor beats them. Who knows, maybe Fenix will have something similar to compete by the time a probable clip is available. So until then, my money is available to any designer/manufacturer that can produce a EX10+UI, LF3XT+clip, or better.

Jake ("a tough critic")

The RA Clicky doesn't have a clip and according to reports the build quality has some issues.

I agree that it is the lights operation, beam, features, brightness, etc... first, clip second. But IMHO every EDC light should either come with a clip or have one available to those that want it. I use clips on all my lights because it keeps it handy and in reach, and stops it from jamming into my leg when sitting down.

Clips should be standard accessories for ALL lights that are small enough to pocket. Period.

The EX10 clip is awesome and one that all manufacturers should take not of. It's strong, the right size, and looks good too. Nice job Nitecore.! :thumbsup:

Budman231 said:

The EX10 clip is awesome and one that all manufacturers should take not of. It's strong, the right size, and looks good too. Nice job Nitecore.! :thumbsup:

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May I remind people again, it took months before a clip was available for the EX10/D10. And don't give Nitecore credit for the clip! They didn't design or make it. 4SEVENS had the clip made. In the same way, it is very likely that somebody, beside LiteFlux will make a clip for the LF3XT, provided there are enough sales to justify it.

I don't think a lot of people held back from buying the EX10 just because it didn't have a clip. Of course, there was a lot more hype about the D10/EX10 prior to its release than there has been for the LF3XT even after its release, when, IMO, all of the faults of the EX10 didn't justify the hype. " Who cares if it forgets its one user mode memory? Who cares if you have to press the stiff PD switch twice to get it to ramp after a shortcut to high or low? Who cares if the split ring's contacts easily gets dirty and sticks? Who care's if the Q5 beams has rings. These faults are so minor," said just about everyone hyping the light. People preordered hundreds of these lights, even before a single review, and they never complained where's the clip.

Now comes the LF3XT, with very few complaints from anybody who actually bought the light. (Look at the threads here, and just about every owner has been thrilled with his purchase. Ok, somebody complained about sharp edges on the cross around the switch. Several couldn't understand the poorly written instruction manual. Even so, they all love their lights!). Yet, the sales of the LF3XT are lacking compared to those of the EX10 before a clip was introduced.

We could argue that it is the sign of the times and the down-turn in the economy making people hesitate to buy another light. If you bought the EX10 before it had a clip, you have since gotten the clip if you wanted one. Why get rid of your EX10, even with its faults, for a LF3XT that isn't all that different, and it doesn't have a clip? Believe me, that latter argument went through my mind, since I do have an EX10, too. But what sold me was light-reviews high rating, the versatility of this lights design and its attention to details, and particularly the unique quality of the beam. Although my EX10 is sitting idle now, the LF3XT was one of the best light purchases I have ever made. (The only one better was the McGizmo Sundrop, but now we ARE comparing apples to $440 golden eggs. The Sundrop is a light with a different goal and purpose. It isn't meant to do everything for me. Because of its near perfect color rendering, it is my work light for doing throat exams. For professional business use like that, I can justify the expense) But for around $60 to buy a LF3XT, you get two lights in one, a perfected EX10 with a simple interface, and a p120 with an interface you customize any way you want it with a beam just as good, if not better, because the LiteFlux has a brighter Q5. Even without the clip, I would say that is a great deal! BTW, for the time being, the light fits perfectly into a P2D holster.

IMO the LF3XT is a must have light. If I could only have 2 lights this would be one of them. And I think the EX10 is also a great light and tops a lot of lights we have had up to this time frame. But the EX10 does not even come close to the usefulness as well as beam quality and a number of other features of the LF3XT.

referring to post #17.

well said BabyDoc ! :twothumbs
and thank you for your efforts in answering questions about the LF3XT.

appreciate it.
khoo

I think we can make this simple with a decision tree.

Think about how you want to carry the light vs. the UI.

If you don't care about the clip, the LF3XT scores higher with more people.

If you care about the clip and want the LF3XT UI and you believe a good designed clip will be offered for the LF3XT in the future, get the LF3XT.

If the EX10 UI doesn't bug you, and you want a clip, get the EX10.

I found myself in a deep conundrum in the decision tree. I can't live without a clip, and can't live with the EX10 UI. There's nothing wrong with not liking either of them.