P7 vs. MC-E: comparative beamshots

Fallingwater

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I'm looking into buying a powerful yet cheap EDC-for-big-pockets light such as the TrustFire TR-C2, but that one uses a MC-E.
Since modding my L-Mini with a SSC P4 I've sworn off Crees in favour of SSCs due to the much more useful (for me) floody beam with no rings, so I'm wondering if this applies to the quad-die LEDs as well. Has anyone taken comparative beamshots? I'd like to see the practical differences in the beams.
Thanks.
 
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glenda17

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Well, I can tell you that the P7 has a very smooth beam without the junky cree rings. I ordered a cheap MCE P60 to see, but I bet that the MCE has rings, Cree is not concerned with quality just lumen quantity.
 

Jarl

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Well, I can tell you that the P7 has a very smooth beam without the junky cree rings. I ordered a cheap MCE P60 to see, but I bet that the MCE has rings, Cree is not concerned with quality just lumen quantity.

lol. I love posts such as these.


It's been known for some time that it's the metal ring of the cree that causes rings in the beam. Hence McGizmo's reflectors, which sit above the metal ring, don't have any rings in them, and make a beautiful beam from a cree XR-E.

Likewise, the MC-E has no metal ring, so guess what.... no ringy beam!! Evidence here. You can clearly see no rings with the MC-E, but rings with the R2.

Please don't make statements which are wrong and damage a companies reputation. Thanks!
 

Fallingwater

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Wow, I love that beam! The one with the OP reflector is superb!
Thanks a lot for the link.
Now, what can I expect from a P7 compared to that? More flood?

I also didn't know it was the metal ring that caused the beam artefacts. Good to know...
 

phantom23

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It depends on the reflector and it's design/curve. One will give more throw with MC-E and the other with P7.
MC-E doesn't have Cree rings but require OP reflector because the lense magnifies gaps between dies.
 

glenda17

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lol. I love posts such as these.


It's been known for some time that it's the metal ring of the cree that causes rings in the beam. Hence McGizmo's reflectors, which sit above the metal ring, don't have any rings in them, and make a beautiful beam from a cree XR-E.

Likewise, the MC-E has no metal ring, so guess what.... no ringy beam!! Evidence here. You can clearly see no rings with the MC-E, but rings with the R2.

Please don't make statements which are wrong and damage a companies reputation. Thanks!


If you think Cree makes LED's for the flashlight market you are mistaken. Flashlight end use isn't even a percentage point of their sales. It is a true statement that Cree has no interest in "beam quality", they develop their LED's for high lumen quantity to use in displays. I have had over 12 cree led flashlights, every single one had annoying rings from Deerelight, to Malkoff, to Fenix.
 

Fallingwater

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they develop their LED's for high lumen quantity to use in displays
...huh?

I have had over 12 cree led flashlights, every single one had annoying rings from Deerelight, to Malkoff, to Fenix.
I concur (the only almost-ringless Cree light I have is my NDI), but as stated before, the MC-E does not have this problem.
 

Jarl

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If you think Cree makes LED's for the flashlight market you are mistaken. Flashlight end use isn't even a percentage point of their sales. It is a true statement that Cree has no interest in "beam quality", they develop their LED's for high lumen quantity to use in displays. I have had over 12 cree led flashlights, every single one had annoying rings from Deerelight, to Malkoff, to Fenix.

It's more that there are very few well designed reflectors for the cree. Liteflux LF5XT has no rings. McGizmo reflectors have no rings. Reflectors that are badly designed, like nearly every single other reflector on the market today, produce a ringy beam. Whose fault is that?
 

glenda17

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You keep mentioning McGizmo. I did a google as to what these are. Basically came up empty, its seems you buy a reflector, and LED, and then pay someone $2000 to design a flashlight around it. Or maybe you get lucky and it fits one of your flashlights. Do they even have a website that lists their models and compatibility? Doesn't seem a viable option for anyone beyond a few CPF insiders.

The MC-E sounds promising though, I'll report my findings when the MC-E P60 gets here.
 

yellow

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I'm with Jarl: Seoul sux, actually it is THEM who is simply after lumen --> and even that is only on the datasheet,
their max is simply a joke and the granted minimum extremely low. Additionally, their bin selection is soooo wide, one has a 80 % chance to get worse output than with the 2nd best Cree bin,
dont even ask for tint (Seoul: blue, no matter what)
from every effort modding a light with a Seoul, I swore to never again use them.
Every Cree mod is simply outstanding --> with Sandwich Shoppe reflectors (dunno if these are McGizmos)


If You dont check such data (bin selection, tint, ...) Jarl is right: dont type!
--> modding and getting good lights is expensive.
--> cheap and crap output, may it have rings, or not --> for lights to lend around, not to use for myself. Cree, or Seoul led --> does not matter with DX-lights

try a XR-E, in a tint You like, with a Sandwich Shoppe 19 mm reflector, You will see ...

PS: I am pretty sure You are one of these guys to type how great Inova's Tiros optic's beams are...now they are really ringy, not that one ring with a XR-E in an unsuitable reflector
 
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phantom23

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Additionally, their bin selection is soooo wide, one has a 80 % chance to get worse output than with the 2nd best Cree bin,
dont even ask for tint (Seoul: blue, no matter what)
from every effort modding a light with a Seoul, I swore to never again use them.
You can get U2 - at least 100lm@350mA.
About the tint - that's a lie!
Cree WC, SSC SWO:
7379b279e73f07f9.jpg


McGizmo reflectors have nice beam but very floody beam, no throw (mod gets $20 more expensive). SSC even with smooth reflector has nice beam. And it's a direct replacement for Luxeon I, III and others.
 
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Illum

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Cree is not concerned with quality just lumen quantity.

:thumbsdow:thumbsdow

You keep mentioning McGizmo. I did a google as to what these are. Basically came up empty, its seems you buy a reflector, and LED, and then pay someone $2000 to design a flashlight around it. Or maybe you get lucky and it fits one of your flashlights. Do they even have a website that lists their models and compatibility? Doesn't seem a viable option for anyone beyond a few CPF insiders.

:eek:oo: :ironic:

can we please have a meaningful/unbiased comparison without getting biased about companies being incompetent before the data from both LEDs is put forth on the table? Gee...be biased if you would but don't call it a comparison, call it preaching:shakehead

yellow, I don't want to sound like a moderator here but the topics about comparative beamshots, not a ring contest nor a jeer about the SSC or CREE.

And btw, the last thread concerning the pros and cons of MC-E /P7 just went unnoticed. I'm hoping there will be a review on both LEDs but apparently there isn't any short, to the point thread around without people throwing dirt in a couple volleys trying to defend the LED of their own favor


SSC P7 beamshots
SSC P7 beamshots. Mag & Tiablo A8 SSC P7!
MRV SSC P7s. Lots of different SSC P7 beamshots!
SSC P7 Mag against OSRAM 64440 Mag & RaidFire Spear. 95-250 m beamshots!

existing comparison threads
P7 or MC-E for Max Throw?
MC-E 5A tint comparison. Modded Mag SSC P7 & MC-E beamshots!
Which would give a smaller spot P7 or MCe?

also, in order for a well defined beamshot comparison to work, reflectors from both lights have to be consistent both in depth and diameter, or else it would be like comparing a KL4 with a turbohead...fun, but useless

Fallingwater, the CREE rings in some cases can be hidden depending on the design methodology, mechanical design, and reflector selection. The CREE ring commonly seen originates from the metal ring below the dome on single Die LEDs, if you take a look at the MC-E pics in StefanFS's thread below you will notice that the MC-E does not have the metal ring.

Its funny that you said "I've sworn off Crees in favour of SSCs" since CREE makes the dies, just SSC buys them and fabricates them differently:)

Since there are many magmods out there, you could sample some beamshots from those who have used P7 and those who have the MC-E and see which one works for you...but take note that different reflectors apply different beam patterns, so rely on them as reference.

I would give StefanFS a PM considering he has both variants and then some, as seen in his thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212835
 

maxa beam

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You keep mentioning McGizmo. I did a google as to what these are. Basically came up empty, its seems you buy a reflector, and LED, and then pay someone $2000 to design a flashlight around it. Or maybe you get lucky and it fits one of your flashlights. Do they even have a website that lists their models and compatibility? Doesn't seem a viable option for anyone beyond a few CPF insiders.

The MC-E sounds promising though, I'll report my findings when the MC-E P60 gets here.


You are a troll.
 

Jarl

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You keep mentioning McGizmo. I did a google as to what these are. Basically came up empty, its seems you buy a reflector, and LED, and then pay someone $2000 to design a flashlight around it. Or maybe you get lucky and it fits one of your flashlights. Do they even have a website that lists their models and compatibility? Doesn't seem a viable option for anyone beyond a few CPF insiders.

McGizmo is a guy that does some pretty amazing custom lights, and is generally at the cutting edge of basically anything, but especially high CRI. He doesn't have a website per se where you buy stuff (he has a modders forum on CPF and a website with a load of photo's of his work), but his reflectors are sold at the sandwich shoppe, as mentioned by Yellow. Although his lights are pretty tricky to get hold of due to high demand, his reflectors, etc, are easy enough to buy.

You are a troll.

To quote wikipedia:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion

Thus, you calling him a troll, is trolling. Irony, anyone?
 

MrGman

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If I comment about the Irony does that make me a troll???:poke:

No comment. :crackup:


From what I have personally seen of MC-E chips in a Dereelight DBS with OP reflector they still show the space between the Dice as an X and aren't as usefull as a beam overall as the P7. In order to get rid of all the non uniformity in the beam it would appear it need even more of an orange peel texture turning it into more of a flood and thereby becoming another floody P7 type light. The only advantage is the wiring options of series/parallel so you can reduce the current and go with higher voltage. I was definitely not impressed where I wanted to run out and buy one when I saw that beam.
 

Fallingwater

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Its funny that you said "I've sworn off Crees in favour of SSCs" since CREE makes the dies, just SSC buys them and fabricates them differently
I'm aware of that, I just like the SSC product better, because I need my lights floody and SSC emitters are better in that than Crees.
As far as I understand things change with multi-die emitters: we're no longer talking about throw or flood, but more or less flood. This is good for me. :)
Thanks for the links.
 
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