new project after 500led flashlight

Hi all,

Some people have seen my finished project, the 500led flashlight with 5mm leds.
I got so many comments about using high power leds, and I MAY going to build another flashlight, but this time it must be more extreme, and the target isn't to build the most efficient flashlight, but just powerfull.
I saw databanks project, and it looks like something I want to go for.
But I will use the most powerfull leds, so I think about using P7 leds with reflectors, and put them as close together as posible.
And may use a big copper plate with one or two cpu coolers on it.

I'am not sure I will ever build this flashlight because it's verry expansive.
But I just like to brainstrom about it. I also want to make some 3D visuals of the flashlight that I will post here.

First, I never used power leds, so I start with buying some leds and reflectors to experiment with.
Some people here advised me to buy at DX, I was searching on P7, and found some products I may wanna buy. But it's a little unclear to me.
When you search on P7, I see a SSC P7 C-Bin LED Emitter with 21mm Heat Sink Base (3.6V~3.7V) for $18.45 This is with heatsing. And I see... SSC P7 W724C0-BSYPI 3.6V~4.2V 12W LED Emitter (Bare) This is only the emitter. But it cost more ($19.03). Are there more versions of the P7 LED, or is this a wrong price? I think I need the one with the heatsink, but I don't know whats easyer to install in the flashlight, I want to use a copper plate. Do I need the heatsink? Or just the bare emitter on the copper plate.
I also need a reflector, do you need the compatible heatsink when you need a reflector? I also see a reflector without heatsink, and one with heatsink and reflector and P7 in one... SSC P7-C 2800mA LED Module with Copper Base (3.6V~8.4V) . Maybe this is the easyest way to install p7's on a copper plate?
But just for experimenting, Can I buy the $ 18.45 with heatsink? And this is the real only P7 version there is?
Or are there even more powerfull leds at this moment?

First of all I´d recommend you to read some of the threads concerning modding with P7 LED´s... then after you have read some, get some info regarding the P7, wich forms and BIN´s there are.. You have linked to one B-bin, and one C-bin, and If you are after maximum brightness you should look at the D-bins... Then there are the Cree MCE, and the other multichip emitters. What kind of powersupply/battery are you looking to use? This and the driver sets some of the boundaries for your build. But first... read some...

Build this ...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214903

... with 4xMCE M-bin WH from cutter and sku.1915 optic from DX ...

I can't wait to see the control circuitry you put on this thing. Your 500 led control circuit was crazy!

Oh... Kai is doing a couple sales on P7's this week. Not that you should run out and buy them, though. Once you find out the emitters you want to use and tint, you can probably get them for the same price.

D-bin P7 for $21 (Brightest P7 to date as far as I know)
C-bin P7 5 for $79.99 (Slightly less bright, but cheaper)

They have worldwide shipping included in prices.

They have worldwide shipping included in prices.

Click to expand...

And the worst customerservice known to man!! I´d recommend buying the LEDs from CPFer Photonfanatic, he ships fast and his merchandise are as advertised or better....

You can also look at the Cree MC-E. You can wire the 4 dies in what ever configuration is best for your uses.

From what I hear, DX has better CS then Kaidomain, but probably not that much.

Instead of placing the LEDs as close together as possible, having a reflector or optic over each LED would give more throw and also space the LEDs further apart and allow for better cooling.

Also look at this thread for bin codes of various LEDs.

Thanks for all your information...

I looked up the bin information, I see that bin-c are most common and d's are allot harder to find. Also, for example at Kaidomain the d's are $6 more expansive. I don't know if thats worth it.

My idea was to put a reflector on every led. I found three reflectors at DX, but they were 52mm wide. I'am looking for a reflector thats smaller than the star heatplate. If I going to use the star heatplate, the reflector would not take any more space. But I found a reflector http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6461 thats only 38,8mm wide. I don't know if these are as efficient as the bigger ones, but it seems a posible candidate. But I want someting smaller if its posible. I did found a smaller reflector, but that was 4 reflectors bound together, I can't use that.
Does someone know a verry small p7 reflector (smaller than 38,8mm) with good specs?

I don't know for sure what batterie to use, but some time ago I saw electric RC helicopters. They use Lipo's to get allot of amps for a short time. They can at least produce 40Amp, don't know exactly at what current, but those RC's can fly up to 15min, that would be enough for this extreme flashlight. If I gonna build this flashlight, it would be extreme enough, no need for new brun time records.
But those Lipo's are explansive and need special loaders.
But I can't think of another battery that can produce allot of amps, and is light and small. I don't want a car batterie for this flashlight.
And my previous 500led flashlight isn't even close at 40Amps. I thought maybe I need two lipo packs, maybe 40 Amps isn't enough.
Someone sugestions about the batterie options?

I think I gonna use no drivers, If I would put, lets say, 50 p7''s on this flashlight, I need allot of drivers, and that would make the flashlight even bigger. I think I use those in series, with a small resistor like I make my 500led light. I closely calculate the batteries load voltages, thats fine, no problem, did that already for my other light.

I just found this battery, it can give 147Amps max, at 18,5V, 4,2Amp/H
So if you say, 4 p7's in serie use 2.3Amps, I can at least let 50 p7's burn for 2min. with only a battery of 555grams.
I'am not sure, but maybe it's posible to put two of them paralel of in serie for longer burns.
http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-4200-185-Flight-Pack&cat=192

Or here, even more powerfull...
http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-6500-222-Pack&cat=192
At 22,2V, max 195Amp, 6,5Amp/H, 951grams
But verry expansive, $469,-

You can try the Cree MC-E. The dome is the same size as the XR-E with the ring so many optics and reflectors will fit it. Some of them are 20 mm in diameter or smaller.

You will get a wider beam then what the refelctor would give if you used an XR-E because of the larger emitting area of the MC-E but you will also be able to pack more into the same area because of the smaller optic.

With the SSC P7 LED's, you have to isolate the base of the emitter from your heatsinc since the base is "+", on the MC-E, the base is "-". You can also use the SSC P7 C-Bin LED Emitter with 21mm Heat Sink Base, or more commonly called mounted on a star or UFO, this will isolate the "+" and give you easy multiple hook ups.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12721

As for a battery, you can use Emoli, LiFePo4 chemistry, or some of the other Safe chemistry LiMN 3.7V rechargeable cells, they have a HUGE drain rate, see here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=184887

LuxLuthor has done some testing on these here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/185950

or many of the RC packs here can dump 150A!
http://www.all-battery.com/25cli-polymerpacks.aspx

I loved your other project, I followed that thread and video. I wish you good luck on this project!

mwhens said:

Thanks for all your information...

My idea was to put a reflector on every led. I found three reflectors at DX, but they were 52mm wide. I'am looking for a reflector thats smaller than the star heatplate. If I going to use the star heatplate, the reflector would not take any more space. But I found a reflector http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6461 thats only 38,8mm wide. I don't know if these are as efficient as the bigger ones, but it seems a posible candidate. But I want someting smaller if its posible. I did found a smaller reflector, but that was 4 reflectors bound together, I can't use that.
Does someone know a verry small p7 reflector (smaller than 38,8mm) with good specs?

Click to expand...

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=186987

they just fit over the black plastic casing of the P7. Basic dimensions: Diameter: 27.66mm, height: 18.3mm, LED opening diameter: 9.65mm, and diameter of centering legs: 12.2mm.

This is the smooth reflector:

I'd recommend looking again at the thread Pepko linked to here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=214903

... with 4xMCE M-bin WH from cutter and sku.1915 optic from DX ...

Those quad- and tri-optics are very compact, (3 or 4 emitters inside a 52mm circle, eg width of a maglite head) which is perfect for your goal of packing in as many as possible. In fact, ONE of those quad-reflectors full of MC-Es shoudl be outputting a similar amount of light as your entire 500 LED flashlight.

mwhens said:

Thanks for all your information...

I looked up the bin information, I see that bin-c are most common and d's are allot harder to find. Also, for example at Kaidomain the d's are $6 more expansive. I don't know if thats worth it.

My idea was to put a reflector on every led. I found three reflectors at DX, but they were 52mm wide. I'am looking for a reflector thats smaller than the star heatplate. If I going to use the star heatplate, the reflector would not take any more space. But I found a reflector http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6461 thats only 38,8mm wide. I don't know if these are as efficient as the bigger ones, but it seems a posible candidate. But I want someting smaller if its posible. I did found a smaller reflector, but that was 4 reflectors bound together, I can't use that.
Does someone know a verry small p7 reflector (smaller than 38,8mm) with good specs?

Click to expand...

If your goal is to tightly pack as many emitters as possible, I would recommend the MC-E. This is a quad-die emitter that is considerably smaller than the P7, thus enabling a lot more options for tightly-packed reflectors or optics.

The 4dice on the MC-E are also independently addressable, so you can wire them all 4 in parallel (like P7), or 2s2p, or 4-series. The ability to wire the dice any way you want (instead of only in parallel, as is the case with the P7) will give you some more design freedom for your driver circuitry.

aircraft800 said:

you have to isolate the base of the emitter from your heatsinc since the base is "+", on the MC-E, the base is "-".

Click to expand...

Incorrect. On the MC-E the base is neutral, so no isolation is necessary. Of course, hand-soldering to the pins on the bare emitter is pretty hard, so I wold recommend a star if you're goign to do series configurations -- espcially if you plan to use the multi-optics. If you do wire it by hand, It will be a major headache. However, in many applications, directly mounting the bare emitter will give you less thermal resistance between the emitter and hte heatsink, which is a big deal with these MC-Es.