Flashlite with high lumen red LEDs

Hi, second or third post here. Been reading a lot, but haven't quite found what I looking for. Plus there is an awful lot to learn here. I'm looking for production or modded a high lumen hunting flashlite with red LEDs. I have been researching red LEDs, found Luxen and SSC P4 LEDs in the 140 Lumen range, but no source for the SSC P4 red LEDs. Has anybody done such mods? I'm currently using a Surefire P9 with a red filter, but the filter cuts down too much light. Looking for something better?

You can buy red Cree leds for under $4 online from Hong Kong with free shipping. Um... what's the name of the place... escapes me at the moment

Rob from Lummi made an Orb Raw with a red 190 lumens LED. It is only a keychainlight for a RCR2 cell but it brighter than a 250 lumen Cree R2 LED light with a surefire refilter attached to it. I once owned such a little gem
but sold it here at the marketplace. Even though it is much brighter than others with a redfilter I fear it is not the appropriate light for hunting.

Eric

IMHO Rebel red-orange is the best performer if red-orange meets your specs. Rebel red is good too. They've got a LOT of light for their size. Thermal resistance is good and the solderable, electrically neutral thermal pad is awesome (though many others have this too).

The good thing to "homemading" a red LED flashlight is that you don't need a driver, and any 2xAA (C-D), or single CR123 can be directly drive a LED to push it over 1400 mA... that would mean more photons than a a car's braking light.

Just don't forget heatsinking, and check current.

A 2AA Maglite with a IMS 20 mm reflector, or McR20, with a LuxIII , Seoul, Edixeon... at 1000 mA should be more than enough to go through your eyelips with no problem. (no matter if you close them, it will blind you if aimed directly)

The TerraLUX MiniStar Red LED drop-in for 3-6D cell Maglites, $25, just put it in place of the stock bulb and done, 140 pure red lumens. See it here: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tle-6exr.html

LEDs of all types have reduced output with temperature, sometimes rather dramatically. The red / orange / amber types are more impacted by this than the blue / green / white types.

Since LEDs are "rated" based on a very short (sub second) test, this thermal effect is not seen during the testing and binning for brightness.

The advantages that the Philips Lumileds technology has in this color area are "very large die area" and "much lower sensitivity to thermal effects". I would definitely go with the Lux III package. (which interestingly, is brighter than the K2 equivalent)

I have one of the higher output bins of the Lux III red / orange in a light built up for me by Photon Fanatic. Since most of the light output gain is in the first 75 - 80 % of the rated drive current, this one is set for 1 amp vs the 1.5 amp Lux III rating.

Barbarin is dead on about the setup options and the brightness - don't try to look into the beam of a Lux III r/o even at 1 amp - way brighter than white lights with 2X the power.

StarHalo said:

The TerraLUX MiniStar Red LED drop-in for 3-6D cell Maglites, $25, just put it in place of the stock bulb and done, 140 pure red lumens. See it here: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tle-6exr.html

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I have two of these on order for my maglites. The Terralux red from batteryjunction is backordered. So I ordered a Diamond red drop in, also, to try them in my maglites. I guess I'm going to have to get into this flashlite building, learn the lingo, as I have done a lot of searching in the last week and have not come up anything that really meets my needs for a hunting lite.

I spent a long time looking at lites on dealextreme.com. By the end of the night I was confused and exhausted. I guess the easiest route is to get an LED lite and switch the white LED for a red LED. The only red LEDs that I've been able to find a source for is Luxon IIIs.

I'm looking for a long throw lite. Long throw, Before two weeks ago I would have never used those two words together. I picked this up here!

I have a surefire P6 with an extension to make it a P9. So I think I could do away with the extension, get a LED drop in module and swap the LED and run it off 1 c123 and a dummy. Is this correct? :candle:

Or, I could buy a new LED light and swap out the LED. Anybody have an recommendation for a single mode LED lite that works with a tail switch that can be replaced with a pressure switch?

Also, would a 3 LED lite have a better long throw?

wachtelhund said:

I spent a long time looking at lites on dealextreme.com. By the end of the night I was confused and exhausted.

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Most likely because DX is a confusing and exhausting site, skip it and go directly to the serious lights - it's a bit of flashaholic sage advice, everyone wishes they would have skipped all the cheap lights in the beginning and just gotten one or two good lights.

wachtelhund said:

I have a surefire P6 with an extension to make it a P9. So I think I could do away with the extension, get a LED drop in module and swap the LED and run it off 1 c123 and a dummy. Is this correct?

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You'll definitely want to check out Malkoff Devices for your Surefire upgrade: http://www.malkoffdevices.com/

wachtelhund said:

Also, would a 3 LED lite have a better long throw?

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Nope, you get the best throw from a single emitter in the largest reflector you can fit it to. The stock Mag reflector is actually a quite good thrower reflector.

Well, the problem is that amber, red, and red/orange LEDs all have very different Vf (forward voltage) compared to blue, green, and white LEDs.

This means that a flashlight might, for example, use a single CR123 cell or two AAs and a boost circuit to increase the voltage to the level needed to drive a white LED. If a red LED were swapped, then the LED would be in 'direct drive' because the circuit senses that it doesn't need to boost the voltage to get the required current so it is basically bypassed. This can result in driving the LED too hard and frying it.

So, what you need is to either direct drive the red LED using batteries that supply a voltage higher than Vf and then add a resistor to control the LED current, or swap the LED in a light that uses a buck circuit capable of reducing the voltage enough for a red LED.

Using the right buck circuit in a drop in, you could use 2 CR123 batteries in your 6P, but you could also use a single rechargeable Li-ion cell (17670).

I realize that this information may not be that helpful to you, so here is a more pragmatic suggestion. If it were me, and I was wanting to make a drop in for a 6P on the cheap, I would start with one of these drop in modules, add a red LED and a driver circuit and run it off of an AW 17670, two CR123 or two AW RCR123 batteries. But, you can't drive the Cree red LED past 700mA (the only one I could readily source), so a Lux III would actually be capable of putting out more light. Unfortunately, I do not know where to get one. I did find a Lux III in red/orange though, which would actually give more useful throw than a red because of higher output and better sensitivity of your eyes to the shorter wavelength. Then you could just stick in a cheap circuit to drive it at 1.2A. This circuit has 3 modes though. If you look around in the electronics section of CPF you can find a tutorial on how to modify one of the multi-level boards to just be single level. Other circuits are available to drive the LED at 1 amp or more, such as a Downboy 1000 (1A) or a Shark Buck 2A (adjustable up to 2A), and these are single level. They cost more, but are of good quality. Both of them are available at the Sandwich Shoppe. Oh, and you better check how much room you have before buying the Shark. The alternative to using a circuit is a resistor. This would force you to always use the same battery pack voltage though. A program is available for calculating the resistance needed.

StarHalo said:

You'll definitely want to check out Malkoff Devices for your Surefire upgrade: http://www.malkoffdevices.com/

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I perviously checked Malkoffdevices for red LED drop ins, Nothing there.

wachtelhund said:

I perviously checked Malkoffdevices for red LED drop ins, Nothing there.

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Ah, you wanted the Surefire to be red also, gotcha.

If that's the case, just use an incan bulb (stock or Lumens Factory) and a red filter - incans are very good at red light output, and do well with a red filter.

Dealextreme has the red Cree's for under $4.

Why do you use red for hunting?

HarryN said:

LEDs of all types have reduced output with temperature, sometimes rather dramatically. The red / orange / amber types are more impacted by this than the blue / green / white types.

Since LEDs are "rated" based on a very short (sub second) test, this thermal effect is not seen during the testing and binning for brightness.

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It depends on how mfgs rate them. Some list output at 25C pad temp, others at 25C JUNCTION temp, which is not realistically achievable. This difference is quite significant for pkgs with higher power and/or junction-to-pad resistances.

Rebel might be misleading on their documentation. I was previously told that driving the reds above the nominal 350mA was pointless because it'll lose so much efficiency that it will not increase the output. My experiments showed this to be basically correct, even though the documentation showed that it should have increased much more.

The point to take away here is that with these red (AlInGaP) devices, they DO have a higher sensitivity to junction temp combined with a higher internal thermal resistance than InGaN (blue/green) in the same package and thus may not realistically perform well at greater than the "nominal" current. Some vendors do like to advertise the devices at double-nominal or absolute-max currents and the lumen values may be completely bogus.

StarHalo said:

Ah, you wanted the Surefire to be red also, gotcha.

If that's the case, just use an incan bulb (stock or Lumens Factory) and a red filter - incans are very good at red light output, and do well with a red filter.

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I hadn't thought about red incan, but red filters cut out too much light.

kuksul08 said:

Why do you use red for hunting?

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Two reasons: It does not effect night vision and animals such as coyotes and fox do not see red light.