Where are SureFire Lights/Components Manufactured?

...continued discussion from here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/196545


So just where are SF lights manufactured? Most say the US, but SF manufactures to DOD standards, which are less stringent than FTC standards. The problem with discussing SF's method of manufacturing is they're very tight-lipped about it. It's not so much what they've already told us, rather what they haven't told us. If their components are all fabricated and manufactured in the good 'ol US of A, then why the complete lack of transparency?

SureFire obviously has nothing to lose... or do they? This leads me to believe SF has components imported from other companies. Could it be they are afraid of being sued themselves?

From a corporate/legal standpoint, I would have to say yes.

Careful, you could get banned for such heresey.

I know of lights like the DARPA DEF lights, it was a collaboration. But they were all US companies. I dont know about the lamp assemblies, but the actual flashlights are made in Socal. However they might have a source for things like the clicky components.

What secrecy? You can see from their website where corporate is located. I believe it's been there forever... One of my lights has that city engraved on it. I think it's pretty safe to say they manufacture at that facility and like many companies, sub some work out. It's only good business to buy what you can't make cheaper. If investing in the capital equipment makes sense, I'm sure they would do it. If a certain sub assembly part comes from offshore, so be it. I think that's fair. If they made everything "in house", that would be even more amazing to me!

OCDGearhead said:

Careful, you could get banned for such heresey.

Click to expand...

He can't.
You, on the other hand, walk on thin ice. Very thin ice.
bernie

To my knowledge, they do all the machining and assambly as well as coatings in-house. It seems obvious that most of the LEDs are imported.

No idea about lenses and the TIRs, LAs and electronics.
They do design the electronics in-house though.

bernie

Who cares?

It all comes from the same rock we call planet Earth.

hey dudemare,
it takes a village bro....

1996alnl said:

Who cares?

It all comes from the same rock we call planet Earth.

Click to expand...

Well said and true. But experience in these halls tells us that the percentage of members who do care is quite high though. For whatever reasons.

bernie

If SureFire do as they have said they will and publish a huge spread about this in the 2009 catalog that will elaborate further then hopefully it will answer our questions.

To try to second guess their catalog publication on 15th January 2009 seems far too hasty and impatient.

sappyg said:

hey dudemare,
it takes a village bro....

Click to expand...

True... but it also takes a village to have intellectually stimulating conversations!:naughty:

I was just going back through the pages of the SF v PL thread and hit upon these two consecutive posts (#239 & #240) that really started my thinking about the whole USA made thing:

american lockpicker said:

Dear Sir,
SureFire Suppressors and Edged Weapons are made entirely in the USA, most SureFire flashlight components are made at our California factory, and all components are designed and assembled in the USA. As much as possible, SureFIre uses components made in the United States of America. You may be interested in knowing that our flashlights do fall within the Department of Defense's qualifications for being of US origin, which are somewhat less restrictive than the FTC's.


Thank you

Greg Lin
Technical Support
SureFire LLC
800-828-8809

Click to expand...

Stuart@surefire said:

Greg is dead on and there will also be a huge spread about this in the 2009 catalog that will elaborate further.....stand by

Click to expand...

If, as Stuart says, "Greg is dead on" about his description of the production of SF lights, then I am expecting to see a total whitewash in the supposed "huge spread" in the 09 catalog. I would be surprised otherwise (and would admit to such).

I'm not sure, but the question that American Lockpicker probably asked in his email was something along the lines of "Where are Surefire products/flashlights made?" and if the answer he received is indicative of the response that SF plans in it's upcoming catalog, expect to have more questions than real answers.

It's not some super-duper-secret. The charger components are made in China (and are marked as such). I have several lamp assemblies that are stamped made in Mexico (probably by Carley Lamps).

As was stated in another thread, SF has never implicitly stated that their products are 100% made in USA.

And I think threads like this seem a bit trollish and only lead to controversy in an arena that really isn't for public dissection.

dano said:

It's not some super-duper-secret...

...only lead to controversy in an arena that really isn't for public dissection.

Click to expand...

This is great. Really.

Ummm...:twothumbs

So I suppose the natural question resulting from Greg Lin's email is 'okay so which components aren't made in the USA?'

Since SureFire do not make an unqualified Made in USA claim then this implies they feel they can't. This leads us to assume that components, significant in nature and cost to the overall operation and cost of the finished product are not of U.S. origin since components that comprise a negligible portion of the product's total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product can be of non-U.S. origin.

As far as we know, no high output LEDs are 100% made in the USA.
SSC Seoul Semiconductor are Korean.
Cree use a variety of factories both in the USA and Asia I believe.

We believe SureFire to source incandescent bulbs made to their exacting specifications from Carley which they mostly manufacture in Mexicali just over the boarder in Mexico rather than solely in Torrance, California which could not meet the quantities/speed of SureFire orders.

Could it really be that simple? Without these components the product would not be operational in a pretty significant way!

SureFire normally have a section of their catalog dedicated to the details of the various components that they believe make their products special or better. I suggest that the 2009 catalog will expand on this to include information on where things are made.

Al

dano said:

And I think threads like this seem a bit trollish and only lead to controversy in an arena that really isn't for public dissection.

Click to expand...

Dano,

I can assure you that I'm not a troll, and never intended to start a thread in such a fashion. As Kiessling said in the other thread, we were more than welcome to continue this discussion in another thread, so...

Size15's said:

So I suppose the natural question resulting from Greg Lin's email is 'okay so which components aren't made in the USA?'

...

Since SureFire do not make an unqualified Made in USA claim then this implies they feel they can't.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your answer.

But yours is not the only question Mr Lin's email brings up. Mr Lin, as a SF rep in technical support, does make an unqualified statement as to SF flashlights being Made in the USA. He explicitly wrote that SF flashlights fall into the description of what the DoD considers to be of origin in the USA. This by itself is an implicit statement that the lights are Made in the USA is it not? If this is the case, why then doesn't SF stamp the lights/packaging Made in the USA? Mr Lin must have felt it was important enough to make that distinction and that he was on solid ground to make the statement.

So, according to the email, SF lights are of US orgin according to the DoD, but according to the FTC, they are not.

Perhaps it really isn't that simple.:shrug:

The way I see it, either you are Made in the USA **and do all you can to show America that you producing one of the few products legitimately Made in the USA** or you are not Made in the USA **and stop implicitly implying that you are by saying such things as "designed" and "assembled," thereby making many believe that you really are Made in the USA.**

The more I read these two threads, the more I anticipate this "huge spread" coming in the new catalog.

**And I as well can assure you that I am no troll. I am just someone wanting some answers.**

wacbzz said:

**And I as well can assure you that I am no troll. I am just someone wanting some answers.**

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Me three.

I understand that SureFire needs their products to satisfy the DoD definition of Made in the USA so that it can bid for and be awarded contracts [with the Military and Government etc]
This is like SureFire ensuring it's products meet the applicable Mil-Specs.

Labelling "Made in the USA" is different and is aimed far more at the hearts of consumers. If you ask the consumer in the street what "Made in the USA" means to them I am sure they, like the FTC are very clear that this claim means "all or virtually all" - simple and honest.

I'm pretty sure it is not acceptable to the FTC for SureFire to qualify a "Made in the USA" claim with "according to DoD requirements".

To muddy the waters with a qualification that effectively increases the foreign content from the negligible is likely unacceptable because "DoD requirements" is not a common and widely understood term.
It could be interpreted by consumers as being more onerous than the FTC definition rather than somewhat less restrictive!

In this situation it is better not to claim Made In the USA at all [especially in consumer-focused marketing and advertising].

Al

Size15's said:

Labelling "Made in the USA" is different and is aimed far more at the hearts of consumers. If you ask the consumer in the street what "Made in the USA" means to them I am sure they, like the FTC are very clear that this claim means "all or virtually all" - simple and honest.

...

I'm pretty sure it is not acceptable to the FTC for SureFire to qualify a "Made in the USA" claim with "according to DoD requirements".

To muddy the waters with a qualification that effectively increases the foreign content from the negligible is likely unacceptable because "DoD requirements" is not a common and widely understood term.
It could be interpreted by consumers as being more onerous than the FTC definition rather than somewhat less restrictive!

Click to expand...

I understand and agree with what you are saying . But what you have written above is really the point that I am trying to make. You mention asking people on the street about the Made in the USA claim; this is what I am trying to say about letters like Mr Lin's.

If one were to poll the average LEO, or military person carrying a SF flashlight, they would almost certainly tell you that it was made in the USA. Especially with the military, knowing that they buy primarily from US manufacturers, it is an easy mistake that is probably made all the time.

If SF believes they cannot make an unqualified Made in the USA statement without invoking the DoD, why even put that out there at all ("qualifying" according to the DoD)?? That seems pretty deceptive to me...

Anther perfect example...I was gifted a brand new Magcharger for Christmas. All over the top of the bezel in big white bold lettering is Ontario, CA USA. Twice as a matter of fact. But on the body of the light, in small stamped letters that blend in with the black body, are the words Patented in the U.S.A.

Now if I hand this light over to people that I work with in the car business that know nothing about Maglite and their business, where do you suppose they are going to tell me the light is made if I were to ask them??

It's that kind of deception - listing the place of business of the light maker on the light or using key words and phrases in emails to customers - that I find entirely bogus.

Hopefully, the catalog will clear this up.