Fenix Outfitters        
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 204

Thread: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

  1. #31
    Flashaholic* BabyDoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Beachwood, Ohio
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Wow! JS, this is another classic for the archives, along with your A2 review. What a fabulous piece of writing, too! I throughly enjoyed reading every word.

    Being an owner of a SunDrop, I do appreciate Don's lights as being something very special, particularly in my workplace where I use the SunDrop many times a day. I am very tempted to get a Lunasol 20, based on your superlative review along with my joy in owning another of Don's light. My only concern is the PD system itself, which you said takes getting used to. I have tried a PD in the NiteCore EX10, and I am less than thrilled with that. While 4Sevens attributes that switch design to Don, perhaps it is unfair to compare that switching mechanism to one of Don's own creations. Perhaps you might comment on that. You stated in your excellent review that the interface is the most important make-it or break-it feature of an EDC light, yet the PD switch requires the development of certain muscles in the hand that may not work out for this 65 year old man. Would you still recommend the Lunasol 20 to someone who had an unfavorable experience with the PD of an EX10 or do you think the Lunasol 20's PD switch is entirely a different entity and worth a try?

  2. #32
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    BabyDoc,

    I really don't know, having never used an EX10. I'm sure that someone who has used both will comment shortly, though. As for the 65 year old man part, I highly doubt you would find any difficulty in developing the muscules needed for the PD UI. However . . . there's no question that the most common complaint about the PD (although still not very frequent--most people seem to love the PD UI) is the force required to activate and hold the high level on. There is even a thread in the McGizmo forum right now about making modifications to address this problem. There was a group buy of a lower spring-force spring, in point of fact. And, as I mentioned, you could also cut the top loop or two off the existing spring, being careful to bend the top end bit downward slightly so it doesn't catch or dig into the negative end of the battery.

    Still, there's no getting around the fact that for your uses, the clicky-switch might be a much better UI. And if you don't feel the need for throw very much, then why not stick with the SunDrop? It's one heck of a light, after all!

    Oh, and thanks for your kind words about the review! As you can probably guess, I put a lot of work and thought into it.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  3. #33
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Texas, USA, Earth
    Posts
    8,459

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Fantastic review js - thanks for taking the time to write this. And by the way, I agree with your point about price: Right now I EDC an A2 and a small Sebenza (using the old BG-42 steel!), so I appreciate good equipment.

    I guess really need to start saving for a McGizmo Ti light

    EDIT: Follow up question: In terms of color accuracy, how do you rate the LunaSol and the SunDrop?

    Will
    Last edited by wquiles; 01-13-2009 at 04:58 PM.

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* jeffb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,246

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    BabyDoc (js, too

    I have an LS20 and an EX10; I use the LS20 often throughout a day (LS20 and Spy005) are my primary lights.

    So, I found the EX10...it is smaller and does not fit my small hands like the LS20. (read not nearly as easy to use, for me) The LS 20 has a very comfortable "fit". I am 57 and don't have any problems with the momentary piston used with my thumb or or forefinger.

    The twisty head for two levels is very easy and intuitive and very natural and comfortable.

    I have owned and used McGizmo's, Alephs, PD's, HD45 and as far as sheer utility, the LS20 is by far the "best" for my uses. I carried different variations of the PD and PD-S for quite some time and never believed that I would give up the Ti-PD-S, due to the lovely beam and similar characteristics of the LS20. However, I no longer own one and am very satisfied.

    js suggestions regarding the spring should be helpful and Don has commented and I'm confident would help, as well.

    Hope this helps....

    jeff

  5. #35
    Flashaholic* BabyDoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Beachwood, Ohio
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    My problem with the EX10 isn't the size. I have small hands. What is a problem is getting steady enough pressure on the PD switch that the light doesn't turn off while ramping or end up switching accidentally to a different light level. I realize the Lunasol doesn't ramp; so that shouldn't be an issue. I do like using my index finger on the switch some of the time, and I just can't get enough force to do that with the EX10. The switch just feels stiff to me even though I have cleaned it, and used very thin lube on the O-rings. I have even worked with the light enough to have sore fingers. I probably shouldn't be comparing an EX10's switch to a Lunasol's switch, but after reading Don's forum, there are people there who have similar issues with the Lunasol piston drive as I have with the EX10 PD.

    Finally, at risk of getting flamed, might I suggest that this type of a light interface might not be a perfect fit for everyone? I really enjoyed JS's review and really can see the logic of almost everything in the review, especially his statement regarding the interface being cruicial beyond every other feature of the light. However, the idea that you may have to exercise your hand in order to be able to feel comfortable using this light doesn't fit too well with me. I thought tools were meant to adapt to YOUR physical needs, not you needing to adapt phyically to the needs of the tool. To put it another way, if you were considering the purchase of a pair of leather shoes that were a bit tight on you, you might buy them if you like them enough, because there is a good chance the shoes will probably stretch and adapt to your foot. But if the shoe were made out of vinyl that won't stretch, there is no chance your foot is going to adapt to the shoe. Would you buy those shoes, anyway? Most would agree, you would be foolish if you did, even if you could get used to the discomfort of wearing them. Saying that you may need to adapt physically to the light interface sounds almost as impractical to me, if it really doesn't fit you well. Wouldn't you just be better off with a different light? Or perhaps here, the pain is worth the gain?
    Last edited by BabyDoc; 01-13-2009 at 06:47 PM.

  6. #36
    Flashaholic* jeffb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,246

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    BabyDoc,

    You have PM!

  7. #37

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    I think operating the PD piston with your index finger for more than a second or so would be difficult. Operating it with your thumb takes a little getting used to. The piston is a momentary switch; keeping the light on for more than a few seconds is most easily done by twisting the bezel. But an awful lot of the time, a momentary blip of light is all you want. Especially useful is twisting the bezel for steady low, but occasionally pressing the piston to get a blip of high. (Note, this is based on my experience with a PD Mule; I haven't used any other PD models yet).

  8. #38
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Wow...great review! I just sold my LS20....Hope i don't regret it down the road. But I still have my LS27...woot!!!

  9. #39
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    As for the Ti vs. Al in a bike accident, it's probable that an Al light would have survived also, maybe with more abrasions and scars, but even so, it would still not be amenable to resurfacing like the Ti light was, in any case.
    That is why I prefer bare aluminum. It looks good, and if it gets dinged up, it's easy to make it look like new. Only problem is, it wears away really fast. Someday I'll get a Ti McGizmo.... Some day....
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    ********************************************

  10. #40
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyDoc View Post
    My problem with the EX10 isn't the size. I have small hands. What is a problem is getting steady enough pressure on the PD switch that the light doesn't turn off while ramping or end up switching accidentally to a different light level. I realize the Lunasol doesn't ramp; so that shouldn't be an issue. I do like using my index finger on the switch some of the time, and I just can't get enough force to do that with the EX10. The switch just feels stiff to me even though I have cleaned it, and used very thin lube on the O-rings. I have even worked with the light enough to have sore fingers. I probably shouldn't be comparing an EX10's switch to a Lunasol's switch, but after reading Don's forum, there are people there who have similar issues with the Lunasol piston drive as I have with the EX10 PD.

    Finally, at risk of getting flamed, might I suggest that this type of a light interface might not be a perfect fit for everyone? I really enjoyed JS's review and really can see the logic of almost everything in the review, especially his statement regarding the interface being cruicial beyond every other feature of the light. However, the idea that you may have to exercise your hand in order to be able to feel comfortable using this light doesn't fit too well with me. I thought tools were meant to adapt to YOUR physical needs, not you needing to adapt phyically to the needs of the tool. To put it another way, if you were considering the purchase of a pair of leather shoes that were a bit tight on you, you might buy them if you like them enough, because there is a good chance the shoes will probably stretch and adapt to your foot. But if the shoe were made out of vinyl that won't stretch, there is no chance your foot is going to adapt to the shoe. Would you buy those shoes, anyway? Most would agree, you would be foolish if you did, even if you could get used to the discomfort of wearing them. Saying that you may need to adapt physically to the light interface sounds almost as impractical to me, if it really doesn't fit you well. Wouldn't you just be better off with a different light? Or perhaps here, the pain is worth the gain?
    I see where you're coming from, BabyDoc, and I would suggest that you borrow someone's LS20 or Ti-PD for a week or two, if you could, to really answer your question(s).

    On the issue of adapting to your tools (or vice versa), I think your analogy of a too big foot being asked to squeeze into an unyielding shoe is not applicable. In many situations, a person needs to develop a few new muscles. This happens to new drivers, especially if they are learning on a standard shift. It happens to those learning a new skill, such as woodworking or woodcarving. It happens when you learn archery or carpentry or horse riding. It even happens when you learn how to write or type or even text on your cell phone with your thumbs.

    A vinyl shoe that will not stretch out mated to a foot that is too large will cause comfort indefinitely.

    Developing a couple new muscles only causes a bit of discomfort for a week or so, and then causes discomfort no more.

    So there's a big difference between those two cases. Now, if there were no payoff, then you could rightly complain about having to go throught it at all, but in my opinion there is a big payoff. It was the same for me with the SureFire M6. At first it was a bit difficult to hold high on with my thumb, but after a bit of use I found that I could do it easily.

    Now, it should be noted that I am probably an unusual case in the sense that I use a new light A LOT, and thus will consciously notice the discomfort and muscle development. Others who have bought a PD light might have just never noticed anything at all, except that they come to like the action more and more over the period of a month or so.

    But, as I have stressed before, the important thing is to find the right UI for you. The PD sounds like it probably isn't for you. And that's perfectly fine! There are many other UI's from which to choose!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  11. #41
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    smflorkey,

    Yeah, it's not every day that you run across a thread with an integral in it. LOL! The math would have been a lot better presented as pictures of my handwritten work, with a real integral sign, and fractions that are big horizontal lines with top terms and bottom terms, and I may actually edit this thread and turn the heat conductivity section into that, but at the time, it was easier just to type it all in. Anyway, you're welcome for the detailed explanation(s)!

    Katdaddy,

    Hey! How are you? Good to see a post from you. As for me and selling used cars, I would suck as a used cars salesman. I even sucked as a Radio Shack salesperson. I can only sell those things which I believe in and which I would (or have) bought and loved myself. And I'm not good at persuasion and manipulation. All I do is present my own view of the situation and why I think a certain item is great, and then let other peoples own good judgement take it from there. I'm more interested in just the appreciation of good things--ANY good things--and quality and care in general--than I am interested in others buying any certain light or monitor or computer or whatever. We here at CPF may all have different favorite lights, but the fact that we might differ on which light is our favorite is far less important than the fact that we have a favorite light in the first place!

    Jimmy1970 and leon2245,

    I understand that bit about it being "depressing" to read about how great something is that is beyond your budget. It can be that. But, keep in mind that most people here on CPF probably have $500 invested in lights and related gear. It's not a huge amount of money, really. If you got serious about owning an LS20 it wouldn't take you too long to raise the funds for it. In point of fact, I sold my black HA SF A2 with aviatrix ring, as well as two TigerLight packages and a Mag mod in order to finance my LunaSol 20. And it was so, so worth it.

    My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

    So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

    Honest. It does.

    wquiles and elmie,

    Thanks!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  12. #42
    *Flashaholic* carrot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    9,070

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

    So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

    Honest. It does.
    It's true! I didn't want any lights for 2.5 years after I bought my McLux... besides snagging an E2L or two or three.
    [gearcarrot.com] Collector and distributor of (mis)information.
    The Guide to High-End Lights | Flashlight Story Collection updated Sept 28
    CPF Specials | 4sevens | LED Testing | EDCF | #cpf

  13. #43
    Flashaholic* jimmy1970's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,042

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    smflorkey,


    Jimmy1970 and leon2245,

    I understand that bit about it being "depressing" to read about how great something is that is beyond your budget. It can be that. But, keep in mind that most people here on CPF probably have $500 invested in lights and related gear. It's not a huge amount of money, really. If you got serious about owning an LS20 it wouldn't take you too long to raise the funds for it. In point of fact, I sold my black HA SF A2 with aviatrix ring, as well as two TigerLight packages and a Mag mod in order to finance my LunaSol 20. And it was so, so worth it.

    My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

    So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

    Honest. It does.

    wquiles and elmie,

    Thanks!
    Oh I wish I was paid in US dollars. At an exchange rate of around 65 cents to the US dollar, I'm folking out around $799 AUS with shipping! I suppose I could sell most of my flashlight stash to fund it but with a young family, 3 kids (2 with health problems etc), the budget sometimes doesn't quite get there - the kids come first of course.

    I do appreciate your deep feelings about the LS20 and enjoy your enthusiastic approach to this wonderful technology - keep it up!

    James....
    Last edited by jimmy1970; 01-14-2009 at 12:18 AM.

  14. #44
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyDoc View Post
    My problem with the EX10 isn't the size. I have small hands. What is a problem is getting steady enough pressure on the PD switch that the light doesn't turn off while ramping or end up switching accidentally to a different light level. I realize the Lunasol doesn't ramp; so that shouldn't be an issue. I do like using my index finger on the switch some of the time, and I just can't get enough force to do that with the EX10. The switch just feels stiff to me even though I have cleaned it, and used very thin lube on the O-rings. I have even worked with the light enough to have sore fingers. I probably shouldn't be comparing an EX10's switch to a Lunasol's switch, but after reading Don's forum, there are people there who have similar issues with the Lunasol piston drive as I have with the EX10 PD.
    I have a few EX10s and a few McGizmo PDs. In my experience, the McGizmo PD is quite a bit stiffer than the EX10. If you are finding the EX10 pressure to be too high, then I think you might find the LS20 way too high. That's not to say that the McGizmo PD is too tight. I bought some of the low force springs, but I haven't really bothered to put them in yet because the original force after breaking in a bit is just fine with me. I have no problems pushing and holding the piston in with my index finger. And I'm not a super strong guy or anything. To semi-quantify it, for a momentary all-the-way-in push, the LS20 feels about 2-3 times the force of the EX10.

    My EX10s pistons are really light of touch, the light is small, machining is superb, brightness is great, runtime is great, and of course Al is buttery smooth to turn vs Ti. So what's wrong about the EX10? There is an inherent weakness in the design of the Nitecore PD. The contact ring is on a spring which goes up and down, but sometimes sticks potentially causing accidental activation. Every week or two you see a new thread like "my EX10 or D10 turned on by itself in my pocket." I use my EX10s in momentary mode only due to this reason. The original McGizmo PD design seems to be the most reliable.

    By the way, I find that my most comfortable leather shoes are the ones that had to be worked in for a few days. I feel the same way about the original spring in the McGizmo PD.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* BabyDoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Beachwood, Ohio
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by brucec View Post
    I have a few EX10s and a few McGizmo PDs. In my experience, the McGizmo PD is quite a bit stiffer than the EX10. If you are finding the EX10 pressure to be too high, then I think you might find the LS20 way too high. That's not to say that the McGizmo PD is too tight. I bought some of the low force springs, but I haven't really bothered to put them in yet because the original force after breaking in a bit is just fine with me. I have no problems pushing and holding the piston in with my index finger. And I'm not a super strong guy or anything. To semi-quantify it, for a momentary all-the-way-in push, the LS20 feels about 2-3 times the force of the EX10.

    My EX10s pistons are really light of touch, the light is small, machining is superb, brightness is great, runtime is great, and of course Al is buttery smooth to turn vs Ti. So what's wrong about the EX10? There is an inherent weakness in the design of the Nitecore PD. The contact ring is on a spring which goes up and down, but sometimes sticks potentially causing accidental activation. Every week or two you see a new thread like "my EX10 or D10 turned on by itself in my pocket." I use my EX10s in momentary mode only due to this reason. The original McGizmo PD design seems to be the most reliable.

    By the way, I find that my most comfortable leather shoes are the ones that had to be worked in for a few days. I feel the same way about the original spring in the McGizmo PD.

    Thanks you for comparing the two lights so well. I do agree about the leather shoes that can comfortably adapt to your feet, unlike vinyl shoes that won't. I just have just one question regarding your experience with the McGizmo PD. Did your finger break-in getting used to the stiff spring, or did the spring break-in and become easier to operate.?

    In any case, it sounds like the original LS20 spring is going to be stiffer than the EX10's. So that probably won't work well for me. I will be interested to hear a comparison again, if you should decide to install the lower force springs into the McGizmo. Thanks again.
    Last edited by BabyDoc; 01-14-2009 at 08:55 AM.

  16. #46
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cupertino, CA
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    BabyDoc, I think the variation in the Nitecore pistons are fairly wide. My EX10 is like buttah. I have one D10 that is quite stiff, the other one is fine. McGizmo pistons definitely take more effort across the board for all the ones that I have. I don't think the springs get softer, nor do I think your phalangeal musculature builds up (unless you're OCD with this) but the mechanism definitely improves with use. I am assuming that your pedi-pod thumb should be able to handle a busy day activating a LunaSol, although I personally still use a cheap 2XAAA incan light for exams throughout my day. Don't let the piston effort deter you from picking up a LunaSol. You could always sell it if you develop "piston thumb".

  17. #47
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyDoc View Post
    Thanks you for comparing the two lights so well. I do agree about the leather shoes that can comfortably adapt to your feet, unlike vinyl shoes that won't. I just have just one question regarding your experience with the McGizmo PD. Did your finger break-in getting used to the stiff spring, or did the spring break-in and become easier to operate.?

    In any case, it sounds like the original LS20 spring is going to be stiffer than the EX10's. So that probably won't work well for me. I will be interested to hear a comparison again, if you should decide to install the lower force springs into the McGizmo. Thanks again.
    To answer your question, I'm not sure if it was my finger or the spring that broke in or something else. I think I read somewhere that Don said it was the piston getting smoother? In any case, the more you use it, the lighter the piston activation and the smoother the twisting action seem. I am comparing to my two samples of EX10s which are really light in activation.

    OK, so after your e-mail, I did install the low-force spring. The action is indeed a bit lighter, but its not a huge difference for me. So I put the original one back in because it looks like a higher quality spring. If you can spare the cash, I would recommend just giving the LS20 a try. Yes, the piston is a bit stiff at first, but you don't have a MCU misinterpreting intermittent contact as ramping commands. It doesn't take long for the LS20 action to break in and in the end it is easier to control than the EX10.

  18. #48

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    GREAT JOB!!!! i agree with everything you said about beamshots, and with my camera taking beamshots with it "unlocked" produces more realistic photo's than with it "locked out." unfortunately, i have locked out the settings due to everyone asking if "the camera was locked out.' the general mindset is that in order to get an accurate comparison of beam characteristics the settings must be locked. maybe this will change some minds . well, even if not i enjoyed it so...kudo's!!!

    as far as price goes even if i was dirt poor and needed a light (as a tool) i would buy this, or any other job specific McG light.

    currently i have a AL McLuxIII PD, and love it. i have another coming on trade from B/S/T and should recieve it today (i try to buy two of everything i love so i'll never be without, and for reasons mentioned above, lost, stolen, etc. ) however, i hope to soon have the Ti version of the PD along with the light i've been lusting for, for awhile now that you so graciously just reviewed, the LunaSol 20....just as soon as i can get to a coinstar and cash in all my pennies!!!

    thanks again for the great wrap-up!!!
    Last edited by The Sun; 01-14-2009 at 12:21 PM.

  19. #49
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    DutchieLand
    Posts
    230

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    yellow,

    I understand where you're coming from, and it's a totally valid point of view--but it is your point of view, your place--and not mine, or bernie's, or yaesumofo's, or any of a multitude of others who own $400 or $500 EDC's. If you say that we haven't thought of the possibility of losing our EDC's, you'd be wrong. Yaesumofo (and myself) for example both have back-up EDC's. Yaesumofo always has a spare for every light in his EDC arsenal. He has two LunaSol 20's, in point of fact. The simple possibility of losing his main LunaSol 20 has not only occurred to him, but he has in fact planned for it, and the idea has not only occurred to him and is something which he has planned for, but, it has not deterred him from EDC'ing a LunaSol 20. Not at all.

    I totally disagree with you that the LunaSol 20 is a "showpiece" merely because it is expensive. YOU and people of like mindset are the very reason for my section on "BUYING ADVICE" at the end of the thread. I would strongly advise you not to buy a light as expensive as a LunaSol 20 or SureFire Titan. If you can't get beyond the price as it relates to the possibility of loss, then do yourself a favor and EDC a less expensive light.

    Obviously, you have given yourself (and have followed) this exact advice. And it's fine.

    BUT IT SAYS NOTHING TRUE IN GENERAL ABOUT THE LUNASOL 20 OR EDC's.

    I intentionally and specifically left out *price* in my "evaluation". Everyone's idea of how to evaluate a cost to benefit ratio is different. Sometimes VERY different. So I leave it to each individual to use the information they can find (such as a thread like this) and factor in cost and chance of loss and everything else they want, and then decide to buy or not to buy.

    It's the same argument that appears all over the place. Carry a Bic pen because, hey, you might lose a more expensive one, and then where would you be? A $10 or $50 or $300 writing implement is a joke, a showpiece.

    And yet, there are many who use an expensive fountain pen day in and day out, and after maybe years (or maybe longer or shorter) when they lose the thing, they buy another one just as expensive.

    I EDC a $400 Chris Reeve Large Sebenza and a $500 McGizmo LunaSol 20 and I have considered that I might lose one or both of them at some point, AND IT WILL BE TOTALLY WORTH IT EVEN IF I DO. (more than worth it) The cost of replacement must be weighed against the daily joy and pleasure of having such wonderful tools at your disposal, day in and day out. For me this more than balances out the possibility of loss and the expense of replacement.

    So, I see where you are coming from yellow, and I respect it, but there are other places that one can live and be, psychologically, and you might want to consider this when making statements like "it is still a showpiece like Titan".

    As for lending your LunaSol 20 to someone, that's something you wouldn't lightly do--like to a stranger or someone you knew wouldn't respect it. And if you need an EDC that you can lend to the-clueless and inappreciative, then, fine, don't buy a LunaSol 20. But the thought of what I will do when someone asks to borrow my light doesn't give me a moments unrest, nor does it prevent me from carrying my LunaSol 20. I simply don't lend my light out to people I don't trust. And this situation rarely comes up in any case.

    What you are saying about the fountain pens is so true!!! I have bought fountain pens worth several hundreds of dollars per pen and I have used them for many years. And! I have lost just as many fountain pens worth several hundreds of dollars. And still I think it was worth it. I will keep buying and using them. Some things you use every day, you just cannot put a price on it. Of course it has to fit your bill, but if it does, I wouldn't want to do it any other way. The same is valid for the McGizmo's I believe. Even worse, considering the amount of work each of McGizmo's creations take, I consider the price a fair one.

    I for one, will keep an eye on his creations as soon as I buy my next flashlight !

  20. #50
    Flashaholic* BabyDoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Beachwood, Ohio
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by brucec View Post
    . Yes, the piston is a bit stiff at first, but you don't have a MCU misinterpreting intermittent contact as ramping commands. It doesn't take long for the LS20 action to break in and in the end it is easier to control than the EX10.
    Thank you so much! This is what I wanted to hear.

  21. #51
    Moderator
    Kiessling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany, Old World
    Posts
    16,137

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    If you're weak ... it flickers. It doesn't enter the menu or strobe
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  22. #52
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    BabyDoc,

    Been thinking about things a bit more, and wanted to add some more to what I've already said.

    First of all, if, hypothetically speaking, you bought an LS20 and the UI just never got good for you, then the analogy would indeed by like the one you mentioned! So, I'm sorry for not allowing for that. There are DEFINITELY people out there who feel this way about the PD action, and I in no way want to invalidate their experience. Some do indeed find the PD to be just "not for them".

    So, sorry if I came across as obnoxious there!

    Moving on, I'd say that the muscles I was talking about developing were the ones that allow you to hold high on constant on for longer than a few seconds. At first, this was an issue. Holding high on constant on for more than a few seconds wasn't easy. However, at this point, I could hold high on constant on for half a minute easy without a problem.

    So, this musculature development is what I was thinking of.

    In terms of how easy it is to push it on high for a second or less, I don't think that force has changed for me, nor do I think those thumb muscles of mine have gotten noticeably stronger or anything. Not by much anyway.

    The spring itself I do not think has broken in much--if by that we mean gotten easier to deform. It's about the same in my estimation.

    The contact areas of the piston with the inner wall of the light body, however, have gotten very smooth vs. what they were new. New, there was no issue or anything, but the action now is much smoother. I liked it new, but I like it even better now. There were machining ring marks (very very fine, but still there) that have been smoothed out, is my guess.

    Anyway, the thing about the PD action is that if your usage pattern is to need high constant on for a minute or so (or less), then off again, and then the same high constant on again, and this happens many times a day--like with a detailed examination you might need to perform often--then a clickie switch is going to be preferable, in my estimation. When I need constant on high for any length of time, I twist the head, but I don't often need this. I mean I might need it half a dozen times a day tops, but almost never more than that. Most of the time, I use momentary everything, or constant on low and momentary high. It's certainly quick enough to twist the head to constant on high, but it's nowhere near as facile as clicking a clickie switch!

    The PD action won't be for everyone. I would never argue that! And specifically in your case I feel pretty certain that it's not for you. So, keep that in mind in you buying considerations. But for most people, I feel pretty certain that the stock PD action will present no difficulties or discomfort, once the initial period of getting used to it has passed. That point I still maintain.

    All I was saying about adapting to your tool is that it's not unreasonable to expect a little bit of adapting to be required before you feel completely comfortable with it. After that, of course, it is indeed unreasonable to keep using a UI that for you is uncomfortable.

    No argument from me there. Totally agree.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    jimmy1970,

    Indeed. Children and mortgages and tires for your car and a new roof on your house and food for your family--these things come first--and second--and third. NO ONE should spend non-expendable income on a high end flashlight in my personal opinion. Plus, if your exchange rate makes the lights even more expensive, well then that makes it that much worse, of course.

    I totally get it. Sorry if my previous post was out of line!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  24. #54

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Yeah, I once made the mistake of going into debt to buy toys (if you can call a motorcycle, sportscars and expensive watches toys) and that is a mistake I will not repeat. I have always enjoyed high quality hand made goods and tools, and have nice fountain pens, CRK knives, watches, guns and now flashlights. I splurged last year and bought an Aeon, my favorite key ring light.

    But I always admired the McGizmos but just never wanted to put that much into a light. Well, I am lucky enough to still have a good job, the kids are almost out of college, and I read your wonderful review (and I am an engineer and understood and appreciated your math!). So Don mailed me a LunaSol 20 this morning and I sent him the payment, so in a few days I will take a big step up in my flashlight collection.

    And I will use it. My EDC Sebenza's are all scratched and have been resharpened by me many times. I don't believe in safe queens, life is too short.

    In any case, great review!

    T.

  25. #55
    *Flashaholic* carrot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    9,070

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by DucS2R View Post
    And I will use it. My EDC Sebenza's are all scratched and have been resharpened by me many times. I don't believe in safe queens, life is too short.
    +1 absolutely. I don't believe in putting things away to enjoy later (more like never).
    [gearcarrot.com] Collector and distributor of (mis)information.
    The Guide to High-End Lights | Flashlight Story Collection updated Sept 28
    CPF Specials | 4sevens | LED Testing | EDCF | #cpf

  26. #56
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    2,959

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Great Post! I admit though I have not read all the text yet, need time when I can absorb it properly. We're definitely going to be seeing a lot more discussion on Tint/Color Temp and CRI. It's nice to see LEDS finally climbing the CRI mountain.

    I was totally shocked though with the pics. From all the previous pics I had seen I thought for sure I was going to be loving the LunaSol images, but I came away thinking the PD-S was better. I'm definitely going to have to looks at all the pics again on a couple of different monitors. I really expected more of a different on the color chart as well.

    Thanks for the Great Reference, time for some serious reading.

  27. #57
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,161

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    WOW... what a review!!!

    makes me appreciate my ti PD-S even more. been wanting a LunaSol 20 for a bit anyways. suspect even I end up purchasing a LunaSol, would still like my ti PD-S better. still running original luxeon in ti PS-S mizer. spare heatsink/reflector/P4 been at the ready for sometime.

  28. #58
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    StandardBattery,

    If tint is an issue for you, it might mean that you want the Ti-PD or L1 over the LS20. As for CRI, check out my thread on the SunDrop high CRI LED light

    And definitely check out the pics on another monitor. That could change things a lot. Still, the Ti-PD-S has a pretty light / tint to its beam than the LunaSol 20--no question.

    cy,

    Thanks!

    As for LS20 vs. Ti-PD, well, you never know. You might switch, or you might not. If I were a betting man, I'd say "not", but, like I said, you never know.

    BTW, I have some Pilas and a proto-type for you.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  29. #59
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    5,791

    Drool Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun View Post
    GREAT JOB!!!! i agree with everything you said about beamshots, and with my camera taking beamshots with it "unlocked" produces more realistic photo's than with it "locked out." unfortunately, i have locked out the settings due to everyone asking if "the camera was locked out.' the general mindset is that in order to get an accurate comparison of beam characteristics the settings must be locked. maybe this will change some minds . well, even if not i enjoyed it so...kudo's!!!

    . . .
    The Sun,

    It won't change anyone's mind. Trust me. But it could certainly start a big heated argument, if nothing else. LOL! But thanks for your appreciation and kinds words, in any case.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  30. #60

    Default Re: The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    The Sun,

    It won't change anyone's mind. Trust me. But it could certainly start a big heated argument, if nothing else. LOL! But thanks for your appreciation and kinds words, in any case.

    hey i'm right there with ya, from now on i'm posting my roundup pic's the "rebel" way!!! the heat from hot breath has never stopped me before LOL

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •