Second thoughts about the new Surefires (120 lumens / 2xCR123s)

So there are a lot of great new 2xCR123 lights out there, all have 120 lumen output with 2 hours of runtime (to be confirmed)

____high/runtime___low/runtime
A2L 120/2h________10/15h
AZL 120/2h________25/6h
LX2 120/2h________15/30h

E2L 60/6h_________3/100h

At first I was totally psyched and I totally want to get one of these lights ... but then I started thinking ...

The E2L I have is 60 lumens, fully regulated for 6 hours on high, and 3-5 lumens for nearly 100 hours on low.

It just seems like a doubling the lumens to 120 only looks a fraction as bright and costs you approx. 60% of your runtime. Plus the "lows" are nowhere near the runtime of the E2L. We're talking like 15 hours compared to 100.

I have taken my L1 and E2L and shone them into the same spot both indoors and outdoors. This gives me 120 "surefire lumens" and I don't think it looks that much brighter combined then just one shining by itself. I also have gotten to play with a friends E2DL (120 "surefire lumens") in pitch darkness. Naturally I had my L1 and E2L and we did a little comparison. The greater brightness of the E2DL is perceivable but it doesn't blow my 60 lumen lights away. Again, its twice the lumens but only looks maybe a 1/3rd brighter. They all had nearly identical throw as well (all TIR lights).

So while I think these lights are sexy and useful (A2L has flood and spot in the same light, sort of a poor mans optimus), it makes me realize I should keep my E2L regardless.

I guess in summary - I think 60 lumens is enough and I'd rather have the runtime.* I think in addition to brighter lights, they should be offering < 100 lumen lights with better runtimes.

There, I said it!

*=but I will likely get an A2L

Quite a few people feel the same way you do, but Surefire has to keep up with comparable brands. Most manufacturer's who are making lights that use a cree are pushing them to well over 100 lumens, and Surefire has to be in that ballpark if they want to sell lights.

the E2L's runtime is very useful for people who want a moderate brightness yet long-running utility light.

I have taken my L1 and E2L and shone them into the same spot both indoors and outdoors. This gives me 120 "surefire lumens" and I don't think it looks that much brighter combined then just one shining by itself.

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I always wondered about that adding lumens together thing with two lights. My E2DL to my eye anyway looks twice as bright as my E2L. I do like the great regulated runtime though so I carry it more than the E2DL.





With the A2L and A2Z though you'll now doubt get a really nice floody type beam we have all come to know from seoul P4 LED lights. Rather than tight beams like the E2L and E2DL though a TIR optic.

A2L for me I think...seems like a nice light...never had a A2 (original).

Chances are I will pick up many of the new surefires, but, I will not be getting rid of my e2l - its a perfect EDC and disaster light.

You nailed it Fooboy! I too find runtime more important than output.

Those little bright lights are fun but in the grand scheme of things runtime is usually more important to your survival. That's how I see it anyway!
You have your cool fun lights and your survival lights! That's why I kept the 1st gen Cree E2L and run it on 1 18650 cell. :thumbsup:

Sure pocket rockets are awesome but there comes a point where you don't need it brighter. Emphasis on NEED. Sure I'll get an A2L and yes I have some really bright lights that don't run too long but those are not the lights I will count on when I have a real need. Can the A2L be counted on, sure but you will need to carry spares if you want to use the primary LED all night. Yeah you should always carry spare cells and lights but do you want to carry 2 spare cells per day or 12 spares per day?

Think about it.

I guess that us why they break their lights up into several categories:

- Outdoorsman: long runtime with good output
- Lumamax: Max output with still usable runtimes, usable low to save high beam
- Aviator: High output with throw, floody low with multi colors

It sounds like the Outdoorsman lights suit you the best. While the difference between 60 and 120 lumens is not earth shattering, it is noticeable. For me, runtime is less of an issue, so I prefer the 120L lights.

The E2L is 60 lumens for 11 hours isn't it? That's what the site advertises anyways.

I'm on board with you. I'd say a 60 to 80 lumen output for a runtime of 6 or more hours is ideal.

Comparing lights today to 3 years ago, my Scorpion LED put out 42 lumens for 2 hours and that was considered very good.

I agree. I'll probably just get the new belt clip, and keep using my E2L as my EDC.

I'll buy a UB3 or M3LT to play with though.

prime77 said:

I always wondered about that adding lumens together thing with two lights. My E2DL to my eye anyway looks twice as bright as my E2L. I do like the great regulated runtime though so I carry it more than the E2DL.

With the A2L and A2Z though you'll now doubt get a really nice floody type beam we have all come to know from seoul P4 LED lights. Rather than tight beams like the E2L and E2DL though a TIR optic.

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I never get tired of looking at that E2DL beamshot !

The above shots are impressive,

however - anyone who has ever taken a beamshot knows beamshots aren't anything like the real thing - seeing it with your two eyes in real life.

liquidsix said:

The E2L is 60 lumens for 11 hours isn't it? That's what the site advertises anyways.

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It's 11 hours usable light.

roughly 6 hours in regulation at 100% brightness, then tailing off quickly for an additional 5 hours at low level brightness.

The only time I want 2 x the brightness at 1/3rd the runtime is for self defense.

60 lumens to the face is still enough to overwhelm your eyes - per SF and my own "tests". Although ... more is better

Based on the advertised specs, the SSC P4 emitter looks to be 3 times more efficient when driven at low levels than the small LEDs used in the A2L and AZ2 (450 lumen hours vs. 150). Of course it's impossible to know this without seeing runtime graphs. I expect that the actual difference is not so great.

For me, the flood beam pattern is much more useful for reading at night than a low powered spot, and 15 hours for the A2L on low is good enough. I'm sure SF had their reasons for the LED choice but I wonder if underdriven Cree XP-E for the low beam would have been better.

Fooboy said:

I guess in summary - I think 60 lumens is enough and I'd rather have the runtime.* I think in addition to brighter lights, they should be offering < 100 lumen lights with better runtimes.

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You should get a Malkoff M60L -- 140 otf lumens for 4.5 hours. My favorite drop in, have one in a G2Z.