CPF Custom Light Design

I'd like to create a design based on a compendium of knowledge of CPF members. And I hope people can get excited about this and would freely express their ideas however "out there" they may seem. I strongly believe that some of the best ideas in the world are not expressed.

I hope this is coming out in the proper location/thread. I did not want to post in Custom and Modified because most of that (like most CPF) is geared toward flashlights, and this idea is for a multi-purpose LED light.... which started with this wish list to which I added #11 today.

1) Non-proprietary design (meaning its freely shared)
2) Lumen range of 500-1500 -- Higher is better
3) Heat sinking designed into housing/mount configuration
4) Focusable (is this even possible?)
5) Adaptable for bike, headlamp or hand
6) Electronics capable of adjusting for conditions
7) Dimming
8) Readily available parts
9) Don't have to take out a second mortgage to do it
10) Easily built once parts are acquired
11) Employ drop-in (or quick change) components

I'm hoping that there could be an instructable guide. Question: Would this "product" necessarily need to be built or prototyped to know it will work? Maybe the result is a set of non-technical drawings with links to various components that can be order or acquired at a store? Can it be known in advance to work because its parts are compatible, without actually building it?

About question about No. 4 (focus-ability). I thought I saw an LED MagLite at Costco that is focusable, but I may have been assuming remembering how the conventional light. Is it possible to do have a focusable LED light without sophisticated optics?

Is anyone interested in this or is this idea overly-ambitious? Will people want to be involved in something with no brand or profit involved (other than knowing one was a part of it)?

I think other than an occasional dispute over technical issues CPF forum seems filled with bright and creative people. Maybe an online project would be fun and interesting for many members... What do you think? And what about the list above? I wouldn't want to throw anything out based on assumptions though....

Good idea Dan....!

I woukd however like to exclude #8....:duh2:
I like customparts and the feel and look of "non-serialmade" parts...
And IMHO all these specs are impossible with readily available parts..


Otherwise I´d be happy to see the end-product and it`s evolution....:thumbsup:

Hate to break it to you but there are way to many things on your wish list here that clash with one another. This is not possible. Sorry. It is a valiant thought and effort however. This would also benefit being in a different forum as well as it really does not belong here.

saabluster said:

Hate to break it to you but there are way to many things on your wish list here that clash with one another. This is not possible. Sorry. It is a valiant thought and effort however. This would also benefit being in a different forum as well as it really does not belong here.

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I don't want to assume things that can neither be proved nor disproved, I just want to share constructively and see what may come from it. Maybe learn in the process... Can you explain what clashes you see in the list? I could attempt to clarify them or fix them or just pull them out. Also, could you say where you think the thread belongs? Thanks.

lumafist said:

Good idea Dan....!

I woukd however like to exclude #8....:duh2:
I like customparts and the feel and look of "non-serialmade" parts...

...Otherwise I´d be happy to see the end-product and it`s evolution....:thumbsup:

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Question for you, Lumafist.

First, thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it!

If it can be done with parts and be kept "doable" for less skilled or knowledgeable people, would you be willing to share ideas toward that end? Or, is the "serial-made part" so repulsed by you you'd not want to see a project that uses them succeed?

I hope you can see that as a fair question. I come here seeking help, knowing much less than most others. Maybe I understand the value of collaboration for that reason. Anyway, I hope you'll help me... But, respectfully, if you don't, thanks anyway for your thoughts.

LightTracker said:

Question for you, Lumafist.

First, thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it!

If it can be done with parts and be kept "doable" for less skilled or knowledgeable people, would you be willing to share ideas toward that end? Or, is the "serial-made part" so repulsed by you you'd not want to see a project that uses them succeed?

I hope you can see that as a fair question. I come here seeking help, knowing much less than most others. Maybe I understand the value of collaboration for that reason. Anyway, I hope you'll help me... But, respectfully, if you don't, thanks anyway for your thoughts.

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Sorry, I answered the question before... not intended towards me...


Yes, I would would be the answer....
I am one off the "unscilled" myself...

I`ve tried my share of modding and that with a fair amount off sucess and a few (ALOT) off unsucessfull mods....

Some custom-parts put together has been proven before with great sucess.....




Jeez....
Myspelling is way off tonight...
It`s way past my bedtime, I`ll check in tomorrow again......

Your specs are a little like saying: I want to build a car that runs twohundred miles an hour, with computerized controls and I want it to run for at least a thousand miles on a gallon of gas..... and btw, I want it built by a nonskilled worker, out of things you can easily collect from a local seven-eleven-shop...

There´s a reason why such a design isn´t on the market already, It would be expensive, and difficult to design and build... Sorry....:shakehead

LightTracker said:

2) Lumen range of 500-1500 -- Higher is better
4) Focusable (is this even possible?)
5) Adaptable for bike, headlamp or hand
11) Employ drop-in (or quick change) components

About question about No. 4 (focus-ability). I thought I saw an LED MagLite at Costco that is focusable, but I may have been assuming remembering how the conventional light. Is it possible to do have a focusable LED light without sophisticated optics?

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I red flagged the two that I think are mutually exclusive. Of course you can focus LED's but only single-die's focus properly. When you're talking north of 500 lumens from one source, it would have to involve either an MC-E, P7 or Ostar (which are all multi-die LED's). Yes it's possible to have 1000 lumens and be focusable, but you're talking several emitters each with it's own focusing system (ie. cammed reflector or optic) which would mean the light itself would be rather large, thus negating the 5th and 11th bulletins.

I'm not so sure about that brighterisbetter. There is some really interesting stuff going on in this thread. More specifically this post. If there is a way to implement this into a focusing system using an multi-die LED like the MC-E, I could see it focusing properly. I tried this out with my P7 and the die size looked at least half as big. Since the area emitting light all of a sudden is the same apparent size as a XR-E die then a focusing system that works with the XR-E should work equally as well with an MC-E. Just my thoughts.

spencer said:

I'm not so sure about that brighterisbetter. There is some really interesting stuff going on in this thread. More specifically this post. If there is a way to implement this into a focusing system using an multi-die LED like the MC-E, I could see it focusing properly. I tried this out with my P7 and the die size looked at least half as big. Since the area emitting light all of a sudden is the same apparent size as a XR-E die then a focusing system that works with the XR-E should work equally as well with an MC-E. Just my thoughts.

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Hmmm, thanks for posting that. I guess the saying is true that "you learn something every day". :huh: However, with regard to the OP, bulletins #8 and #11 would pose problems as the posts you referenced are still experimental. Give it some time though and who knows.

Scattergun said:

There´s a reason why such a design isn´t on the market already, It would be expensive, and difficult to design and build... Sorry....:shakehead

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Scattergun, If you're right, maybe the wish list should be revised -- either reduce potential costs by being less "wishful" about features (like quick change parts), or admit this can't be done cheaply and remove 9) from the list.

The responses are encouraging and interesting. I'm happy see willingness to share ideas and solve problems. Speaking of problems, who do I talk to about moving this thread to Homemade and Modified lights?

Question: Is it more important to create something cheap/simple or something with features? Also, what's most expensive on the list other than focus-ability? On the other hand, maybe someone will design optics with a movable lens for a multi-LED unit? Something like the cluster lens shown below that is made by Cutter Electronics.



So is it certain that focus-ability can't be done cheaply? Just not right now, right?

There obviously are mutually exclusive ideas on the list. Which makes me return to this question: Is it more important to have a doable, inexpensive light or to have a feature-rich light that is less doable?

And what should be removed? #7 is not that expensive or difficult, right? Neither is #3, I think. There are inexpensive heat-sinks available that match up with an LED unit, and they attach with thermo-conductive tape. In theory, you wouldn't even need a housing for that, just wire the battery and bond/seal it. Of course it wouldn't look very nice and many people wouldn't want it for that reason. So that's another question. How important is it to have nice housing and how do you acquire it cheaply? And, will it look homemade? How important is it for it to not look home made?

Lumafist, don't worry about spelling. Thanks for sharing. Thanks to everyone who responded. I'm going to add a post after this one with only the wish list on it, that would be easier to reference and discuss, I think.

Thanks!

CPF Custom Light Design - Wish List

(This is the original list. Here is a link to the Current Updated Wish List)

1) Non-proprietary design (meaning its freely shared)
2) Lumen range of 500-1500 (higher is better)
3) Heat sinking designed into housing/mount configuration
4) Focusable (is this even possible?)
5) Adaptable for bike, headlamp or hand
6) Electronics capable of adjusting for conditions
7) Dimming
8) Readily available parts
9) Don't have to take out a second mortgage to do it
10) Easily built once parts are acquired
11) Employ drop-in (or quick change) components

Quick Link to topic lead-in
Bruce C - Aleph configuration (or see next post)

Have you taken a look at the Aleph series of lights? It seems to me that it meets most if not all of your requirements. The series is designed by McGizmo and is also compatible with Surefire's E-series of light components.

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php?cPath=43_93

This will also give you an idea of how flexible the Aleph system is. 635+ lumens on whatever body you want.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/220390

LightTracker said:

1) Non-proprietary design (meaning its freely shared) yes
2) Lumen range of 500-1500 -- Higher is betterCree & SSC GDuP light engines readily available for normal output. For high output, every now and then you see P7 light engines available from modders like DatiLED.
3) Heat sinking designed into housing/mount configuration I'm not sure what you mean here, but the Aleph light engines screw into the head.
4) Focusable (is this even possible?) Different heads are available from mule to various reflector sizes and I think even aspheric lenses (I could be wrong about that). I'm not sure if a zoom or focus assembly exists, at least I haven't heard of it.
5) Adaptable for bike, headlamp or hand As far as I know, there are no angled head adaptors or headlamp configurations.
6) Electronics capable of adjusting for conditions Some light engines have 3 modes, some have just 1. It depends on the converter board.
7) Dimming Same as #6.
8) Readily available parts There are A LOT of Aleph configurations from different body tubes to different heads to different emitters to different finishes, etc.
9) Don't have to take out a second mortgage to do it Aleph 19 basic complete light goes for around $200. But you can also find custom Ti Aleph body tubes, heads, tailcaps, etc.
10) Easily built once parts are acquired Everything is Lego'd together.
11) Employ drop-in (or quick change) components Like #11, you can configure your light to basically anything you want.

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Just a quick reply to my own question (hmm... does that make me Schizoid?) As for a housing, if there's interest in this and the project moves forward... I've heard of an Amish community not far from here that can do castings on-the-cheap if you provide them a pattern. I have the means to make patterns. So if that's a desired course of action, its something I'd be willing to do. Once you make the pattern castings can be cheaply acquired. The nice thing about this is that you can specify exactly what you want. Scattergun, you might be surprised at how nice a design you could get without the expense. (I do have to verify the availability of that service though.)

Bruce C, thanks for your comments,and the link! Notice I cross referenced your post at the bottom of the wish list.

Thanks too for the "yes" on #1. I think that's what will make it fun rather than anything else. I already have a job

No, I had not looked at the Aleph series before, but I used to be in touch with SureFire. Can't recall the guy's name... but he was principally doing design for The Beast at the time. Great guy, very helpful... wish I could tell you his name.

I don´t think the Aleph is the answer, those are hardly easy to build if you include the building of the light-engine. Readily available parts is also a questionable statement about Aleph, even the E-screw and E-can for the engine have been out of stock for quite a while and was just recently added to the Shoppes inventory again.

Moreover, the Aleph system is mainly made for single-die emitters, with to little mass to properly cool a quad-die LED like the P7 on full throttle.

I´d say the most difficult part of your specs is the thing about being able to adapt from headlamp to bikelight and then to a handheld. This somehow limits the lights size to something that fits on a headband, otherwise you would need a separate batterypack... A flashlight small enough to carry on your head with an output of between 500 an 1500 lumens will need some mass to cool the LED properly....

If you want the light to be easily built, the most common approach is to use a readily available flashlight and go from there. The Mag platform is one of those, the Surefire C- and E-series are two others.

If it was possible to build a C-series compatible head with focusing abilities and a quad-die emitter this would possibly work as you described. One of the pro´s of such a design is that you could use a multitude of bodysizes for different applikations

Scattergun,

Scattergun said:

I don´t think the Aleph is the answer, those are hardly easy to build if you include the building of the light-engine.

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What of the Aleph idea may be used (IYO)? Honestly, I think there are some good ideas there.

Scattergun said:

Moreover, the Aleph system is mainly made for single-die emitters, with to little mass to properly cool a quad-die LED like the P7 on full throttle.

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Did you noticed I changed #1 on the list so it does not say "Higher is better"? Whether single or multi-emitter, maybe this will make the design more flexible... less demand for mass in the housing or a large heat-sink if leaning toward the low end of that range, maybe revise #2 to say 500-1000 lumens? This Cree 7090 Xlamp has 3 emitters, its 35mm in diameter and puts out 950Lm. It comes with a matching heat-sink.

Scattergun said:

I´d say the most difficult part of your specs is the thing about being able to adapt from headlamp to bikelight and then to a handheld.

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Why not provide 3 adapters, one for a handle (or tube), one for a headband and one for the handlebar? There's no reason why it couldn't be designed to be either fixed together with the battery or separate -- I mean be changeable, let the battery attach to the light or be separate with a coil cord perhaps. (that might work against aesthetics)

Scattergun said:

If you want the light to be easily built, the most common approach is to use a readily available flashlight and go from there. The Mag platform is one of those, the Surefire C- and E-series are two others.

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I think that's a good idea, it could even be the best one as I've heard it said several times in different threads. Still need to figure out how to modify it so the wish list can be satisfied, if possible, right?

Scattergun said:

If it was possible to build a C-series compatible head with focusing abilities and a quad-die emitter this would possibly work as you described. One of the pro´s of such a design is that you could use a multitude of body sizes for different applications

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Are you good at drawing? I can draw and post the idea if you can be "descript" enough to convey the picture in your mind... I could do it justice and post something to depict to others in the forum. Pictures are a plus... For example, here is a very basic housing idea.

(sample drawing only, not what I'm suggesting)

Quote of Sgt. Schultz: "In war, I do not like to take sides!"

Using three individual LEDs, even when mounted on a single PCB will make focusing a very difficult task. Thats why I would recommend a multichip emitter like the P7 or MCE. The problem with the C-series heads is the fact that the D26 module rests on the front rim of the head, with the groundspring keeping tension behind it. This means that if you unscrew the bezel like when focusing a Mag-bezel the D26 module will only follow the front of the bezel, not changing focus.

If a C-series head was to be made focusable, you would need to make an extra outer bezel, wich is threaded and mates with the outside part of the original bezel, and then place a aspherical lens in the threaded outer bezelpart, thus enabling it to focus or defocus the aspherical lens in relation to the LED.

This solution would however require a specially made D26 module without reflector, only a fairly thin tube with an outer diameter of 26mm instead of the reflector wich otherwise would cause problems when used with an aspheric.

Scattergun said:

This solution would however require a specially made D26 module without reflector, only a fairly thin tube with an outer diameter of 26mm instead of the reflector wich otherwise would cause problems when used with an aspheric.

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This does not sound very doable.... Is an aspherical lens the only choice for focusing? What about a swappable lens or a carousel configuration of several that you could rotate? Still does not sound very doable though, I think.

What do people think about this? Should #4 be dropped on account of its impracticality? I also noticed that lens adds about 40.00 to the cost, not to mention possible machining required. Can someone think of a way to retain #4?

Focusing with a reflector is only possible when LED is movable in relation to the reflector. The C-series is not made like that.
The Mag D and C is hardly a light you would like to wear on a headband or on a bikehandle...
Rotating lenses in a carousel-mount will be an extremely size-inefficient design.