Malkoff M60 and weapon lights

I just purchased a Malkoff M60 yesterday and I am waitting for it to come in the mail. The reviews were so constanly good that I had to try one out. I was thinking about putting it in the surefire foreend light on my remington 870 shotgun. Has anyone tried this? I want the increased lumens on the weapon because I use it as my duty shotgun, but I don't want to damage the drop-in. If anyone has tried this or know how it would hand the 12 guage recoil I would appreciate information.

12 gauge recoil, depending on what rounds you shoot, is fairly strong. My department uses low recoil rounds which I know would not damage the M60. I have burned through thousands of rounds with both .223 and .308 with no issues! Again, depending on what you are shooting I think you should have no problems!

The M60 is great, BUT! I would recomment the X300 with a LaRue mount.

Why? Less weight on the mounting point. I have torn some amazingly well build mounts to hell with my M4 and 3" 1oz slugs. The more weight you strap on there, the more stress on the components. I would worry more about the mounting setup than I would the Malkoff. Other than losing momentary contact (possibly), you should be fine on that end.

We use low recoil 2.75 inch OO buck and slugs. Cruizer ready has OO buck in the magazine tube and slugs in the sidesaddle. The surfire light is the modular light that imbedded in the foregrip. I would be hard for me to chage to a different system. Great news on the M60. I will put it in when I get it. I am using P7's as my patrol lights so it is almost painful to use the stock incan light on the shotgun. I feel like I am using a match. If this drop-in is all that people say it is I will probably put this one in the shotgun and buy a second for my surefire C2 as my offduty light.

Thank you for the input. I didn't want to make an assumption and destroy a $55 part. That is beauty of this forum. No reason to wonder about something, just ask. Someone has tried it already.

This is the setup that I am working with right now.



http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=remonekl0.jpg

I have used a Malkoff M60L with no issues for hundreds of rounds of low recoil buck, slug, and full power field loads with no issues in my Duty 870. I have also used various M60's in my AR's with no issues after thousands of rounds.

However, last week my 870 did fall over directly onto the SF head onto concrete which caused a loss of contact when just using the extra washer from Gene. I examined it more carefully and think that the actual elasticity of your SF shock absorbing head can cause some looseness in the contacts which can be defeated through a major shock. This is an exceptional situation and one that would have probably popped a regular incan bulb.

To fix this, I wrapped my M60W with some copper sheeting for a tighter fit that can still move in/out of the light body but assures contact in all situations. Heavy aluminum foil would probably do the same thing.

Basically, a Malkoff replacement would work awesome and be more reliable than your current bulbs in most any situation!

Dennis.

Nice set-up brother! Slightly off topic but try a Gear Sector 2 point sling for your rig! You will be much happier!!!!

N/Apower;

I know what you mean about the mount. I had the vang comp porting and sight system done to this shotgun. It had to go back twice for repairs because the rail he put on the receiver came loose because of the aimpoints weight. Mr. Vang said it was the first time it had happened to one of his rails. The third time they put extra screws in the rail and used an industrial marine adhesive to strengthen the bond to the receiver. Now it is rock solid. I am going to be upgrading to the new aimpoint mirco soon. I checked it at the shotshow and it co-witnesses perfect with the iron sights. That will shave off some wieght and smooth out the profile.

Policetacteam;

I will check out that sling. Thanks

The agency uses 6P's with tape switches on barrel clamps on the issued bushmaster AR15's. Very few people inspects their light. When they have the annual recert many of the lights have dead batteries from the tape swithces getting activated in the car mounts and killing the batteries. About 15 mintues in the shooting you start to see the 6Ps fall off the rifles because the mounts are loose and they never check them. It always amazes me the lack of care people take in the weapon lights on their issued long guns. Until something goes sideways it is not a concern.

You only have to have your weapon light die once in a potientally lethal encounter to change your thinking. You develop redundant light systems and put spare bulbs and batteries in your gear. That is one of reason I am glad LEDs finally have the output so I can replace the incans. Now I only have to carry space batteries for the long guns once I switch the bulbs out.

I wouldn't have the Aimpoint on there to start with. But that's just me........

pee10755 said:

The agency uses 6P's with tape switches on barrel clamps on the issued bushmaster AR15's. Very few people inspects their light. When they have the annual recert many of the lights have dead batteries from the tape swithces getting activated in the car mounts and killing the batteries. About 15 mintues in the shooting you start to see the 6Ps fall off the rifles because the mounts are loose and they never check them. It always amazes me the lack of care people take in the weapon lights on their issued long guns. Until something goes sideways it is not a concern.

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Not related to mounting lights on weapons apart from what you said, but when I read this I went:

pee10755,

Would like to know what sling you have on your 870? After fooling with the various V-Tac, Vickers, etc., I decided those slings are not for me. Too much going on is going to get me killed. I would like to know about your wide strap sling. That looks perfect for comfortable carry, as well as simplicity.

Thanks!

The main reason I put the aimpoint on the shotgun is because I have to shoot with a gas mask much more than most. I am a grenadier/chemical agent specialist so I deploy a wide variety of chemical agents from many platforms. I find getting and keeping a sight picture with iron sights and a gas mask difficult. The aimpoint makes it much easier and fluid to sight with the mask.

I talked to a rep of Bulldog Equipment at the shot show and he is sending me a new design of their one point sling for testing. I have four long guns in my car, Rem 870, AR15, 40mm Gas launcher, Sage baton launcher. They are putting a quick release between the sling and the long gun harness for me. There will be a single attachment point harness on all four weapons rear of the receiver left on the weapon. I can keep one sling for all guns and transition quickly. It should be an interesting system to try. I am always trying to simply and streamline my gear.

The sling on the shotgun is actually the shoulder strap from a military duffle bag attached with paracord. I like the connections because they are silent and swivel. The webbing is very comfortable if you have to wear it in a front carry for extended periods of time on a perimeter. The stiff one inch webbing seemed to cut into the shoulders for extended carry. I like it because it is very simple and comfortable.

When we have an event I am usually the ready car platform for civil disturbances. I need still need to put a light on the 40mm at some point. I will be looking for a light with throw because I launch 40mm impact rounds at a longer distance. This is the average level of munitions that I have for a big event. If the car catches fire, run...



I didn't mean to go too far off topic, but I wanted to answer the question. I need to replace the incan bulb in my surefire AR15 M500A light with an LED. I might seek guidance for that in a different thread in mod section of the forum.

R.ticle One said:

Not related to mounting lights on weapons apart from what you said, but when I read this I went:

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I'm not surprised - it's a lack of planning. The same thing with disaster kits or even having working flashlights and batteries nearby.

The only thing that makes this scenario worse is that it's happening with people who should know better.

Hell, I know an E-5 who had his bolt rusted together.

-Trevor

What style of mask do you use? The MCU-2/P style mask works reasonably well with long guns since you can compress the flexible plastic visor when getting your cheek weld. The M40-style is next in line, since you can at least put the filter canister on the opposite side of the cheek weld. The old M17 is the worst.

No question that a red dot, with minimal parallax and infinite eye relief, really helps when wearing a mask.

pee10755 said:

The main reason I put the aimpoint on the shotgun is because I have to shoot with a gas mask much more than most. I am a grenadier/chemical agent specialist so I deploy a wide variety of chemical agents from many platforms. I find getting and keeping a sight picture with iron sights and a gas mask difficult. The aimpoint makes it much easier and fluid to sight with the mask.

Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense then! Thank you for the info.

I've trained with open sights and gas masks in the Army, to say it's difficult is a big understatement. It flat out sucked.

On-topic: Gene has stated that his drop-ins have been torture tested on some full-auto guns (M60's I think) with no problems.

Off-topic: Magpul rolled out a new sling at SHOT which appears to be the heat. Go to youtube and search on Magpul 2009 SHOT show.

Right now I am using the Scott ProMask. It has a good field of view and holds a great seal. If I am doing crowd control on a hot florida day I will put on two filters to increase the airflow and oxygen. The lens is hard and will not bend to allow a cheek weld. The filter is on the left side only most of the time so that it doesn't get in the way. I want to try the Advantage 1000 mask because it is much more flexible and allows you to change between a clear and dark shield for impact protection in crowd control. I would have to buy it myself so I have not dropped the money. I am happy with the Scott except in sighting a longgun.

US Army Edgewood Chemical Biological Center has tested a limited number of respirators. The 3M M40 mask and the Scott/Micronel M95 mask have shown excellent performance in various protection factor, sealing, and permeation tests. The Advantage 1000 had lesser performance in both protection factor testing and GB (sarin) permeation. Granted, you have other problems besides mask penetration if you get exposed to GB, but the fact remains that the Advantage 1000's Hycar rubber is inferior to butyl rubber when it comes to agent permeation.

It would also be interesting to see how well LED lights like the M60 penetrate vapors/smoke.

Justin Case said:

US Army Edgewood Chemical Biological Center has tested a limited number of respirators. The 3M M40 mask and the Scott/Micronel M95 mask have shown excellent performance in various protection factor, sealing, and permeation tests. The Advantage 1000 had lesser performance in both protection factor testing and GB (sarin) permeation. Granted, you have other problems besides mask penetration if you get exposed to GB, but the fact remains that the Advantage 1000's Hycar rubber is inferior to butyl rubber when it comes to agent permeation.

It would also be interesting to see how well LED lights like the M60 penetrate vapors/smoke.

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while back on this site I found beam-shots of such. The X300/E2DL won hands down.

The thing is that I can envision controlling variables such as light spectrum, beam pattern (which can affect angle of incidence of the light on the smoke particles), and beam intensity, and perhaps others.

It's hard for me to believe that the various white LEDs in the X300 vs M60 vs E2DL have enough spectral difference to matter. Now if you compared white LED to incandescent, I can see how there is a much larger spectral difference. which might result in different performance in smoke/fog. Perhaps, there might be enough difference when using some of the warm white LEDs as well, but that is sometimes convolved with a lower intensity as well.

As a rough guess, I'd think that a tighter focus, lower intensity beam (especially when held away from the head and angled downward), which sounds like an X300, would produce less back scattered light to dazzle the eyes.

I have done a lot of test shooting in an indoor range with my lights where I shut the exhaust fans off for a few minutes at a time and filled the place up with gun smoke, then lit it up with the lights. Any and all white LED's which is still mostly blue light from the source light up the smoke very well and send it back. The only real way to minimize this is to have the flashlight below the gun barrel as the hot smoke most assuredly rises on its own. Incandescents are somewhat better yes, yellow to orange filters are also somewhat better but the trade off is of course less light and less contrast down range due to the filters themselves. The best solution is to shoot and move off axis to get away from the gun smoke immediately if you have the room to do it.

I have yet to try making any videos with my new camera to see how well it would do in showing this, haven't had much time but I will give that a try some time. I could always use some help from some one in the San Jose CA area. It is really great to be able to train in a pitch black environment with nothing more than the torches I bring and use, I have tried anything from a little 16 lumen green output Inova X5 to my 700 plus lumens Malkoff Triple drop, light up the room screamer.

Lighting up your own gunsmoke is going to light you up really well (which of course is bad) and give you away. So the best thing is of course to kill the light and get the heck out of that spot immediately if not sooner. Which is where the new dance called the Flash-Bang Boogie got its name.