Plia IBC Missing Termination?

My new Pila IBC seems to be missing terminations. When I charge cells, in either bay, the lights will stay red until I bump or slightly move the charger, then they will turn to green. They only turn to green after they have been fully charged and I do the bump, making me think that they are being over charged.

When checking the voltage of the cells on my cheap multimeter I'm getting readings from 4.22V to 4.24V, using both AW and Trustfire 18650 cells. Soon I'll be contacting Pila, but I thought I'd ask for any advice or suggestions here first.

Thanks.

Z.

4.22V-4.24V is high. You say you have a cheap DMM. That doesn't necessarily mean it's inaccurate - some of the cheap ones are perfectly OK - but even so, it would be worth double-checking it against another one. Do you know anyone else who has one you could check it against? I would do that before assuming the charger is faulty.

My AW cells charge consistently to 4.17v in my Pila. I agree with DM51 that 4.22 is a tad high.

Same here, my cells are 4.17 off the IBC . . .

DM51 said:

4.22V-4.24V is high. You say you have a cheap DMM. That doesn't necessarily mean it's inaccurate - some of the cheap ones are perfectly OK - but even so, it would be worth double-checking it against another one. Do you know anyone else who has one you could check it against? I would do that before assuming the charger is faulty.

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The only friend of mine who would have a high quality one just borrowed mine the other day as his broke. That aside, it's not just the readings, but more the fact that the charging light doesn't go off until I bump the charger that makes me think there is a problem with it.

Could be, but the lights on mine sometimes go green if they are bumped too. The difference is that that happens too early, at ~4.17V.

I think when it's bumped, the charger thinks a new cell has been put in the bay, so it assesses it and decides it doesn't need charging, as it is near fully charged anyway. Maybe yours is faulty in that it leaves that too late. I think you should still try to check your DMM, though. Is there no electrical/electronic store near you where you could test it?

DM51 said:

Could be, but the lights on mine sometimes go green if they are bumped too. The difference is that that happens too early, at ~4.17V.

I think when it's bumped, the charger thinks a new cell has been put in the bay, so it assesses it and decides it doesn't need charging, as it is near fully charged anyway. Maybe yours is faulty in that it leaves that too late. I think you should still try to check your DMM, though. Is there no electrical/electronic store near you where you could test it?

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Thanks for the info.

There isn't a local electronics shop that I know of that can test it; no Radio Shack or the like here. As for electrical, there are wholesalers, high end lamp shops, and Home Despot type shops. But I'll take a look around. I know the local auto parts store sell Falcom multimeters (USD300!), maybe I'll swing by there and ask to use one as I know the guy behind the counter.

DM51 said:

Could be, but the lights on mine sometimes go green if they are bumped too. The difference is that that happens too early, at ~4.17V.

I think when it's bumped, the charger thinks a new cell has been put in the bay, so it assesses it and decides it doesn't need charging, as it is near fully charged anyway. Maybe yours is faulty in that it leaves that too late. I think you should still try to check your DMM, though. Is there no electrical/electronic store near you where you could test it?

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mine does too.

Oddjob said:

My AW cells charge consistently to 4.17v in my Pila. I agree with DM51 that 4.22 is a tad high.

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same here my wolf-eyes 18650's charge to 4.17

I ran into the same apparent high termination issue in my Pila IBC. I was reading something like up to 4.22V or 4.23V termination in some cases.

To check my Mastech DMM, I compared the voltage readings from my DMM to a Fluke 73 Series III. I measured 52 different sources, ranging from AA alkalines to 123A primaries to 16340 and 18650 secondaries to digital camera battery packs to 12VDC power supplies. Unfortunately, the accuracy spec for this Fluke model isn't much better than my DMM's spec, so there is still some question as to which readings are closer to ground truth. Also unfortunately, I don't have a calibrated voltage source. I tried testing some wall warts, but they all read much higher than the voltages printed on their labels. Very stable, but still in the end an unknown voltage.

Basically, both DMMs showed very consistent and repeatable measurements. At the ~4.2V level, my DMM was reading about 0.03V higher than the Fluke. So, it is possible that the 4.23V termination was actually exactly 4.20V. Then again, 4.23V could be accurate and the Fluke could be reading low. The accuracy specs for both DMMs were such that the readings from the DMMs essentially had overlapping measurement error bars.

One thing that gives me pause, however, is that other CPFers' observations of termination voltages of ~4.17V and such are far lower than what I've been measuring with either the Fluke or Mastech DMMs. So it seems that my Pila does terminate on the high side. The question seems to be if it is above 4.20V or not.

Maybe some day I'll buy a Fluke 87-5.

My Pila IBC will terminate early if it's near completion and I reach down to feel the temp of the battery. Blip.... Green!

One thing I find strange, I have two different brands of 14500s and of 16340s. The 14500s all terminate between 4.18 - 4.20v, and the all the 16430s always at 4.15 maybe 4.16v. :thinking:

Justin Case said:

At the ~4.2V level, my [Mastech] DMM was reading about 0.03V higher than the Fluke.

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I have a Mastech DMM and it also seems to read high. Compared to a selection of other meters, it seems to read about 0.01V high on the 4 V range. So for a battery that other meters put at about 1.383 V, the Mastech will read 1.393 or so. I took the first one back because of a fault and the replacement is calibrated just the same, so I think maybe the calibration reference Mastech use is a little high. At some point I'd like to get hold of a good voltage reference to compare against.

Ziemas said:

My new Pila IBC seems to be missing terminations. When I charge cells, in either bay, the lights will stay red until I bump or slightly move the charger, then they will turn to green. They only turn to green after they have been fully charged and I do the bump, making me think that they are being over charged.

When checking the voltage of the cells on my cheap multimeter I'm getting readings from 4.22V to 4.24V, using both AW and Trustfire 18650 cells. Soon I'll be contacting Pila, but I thought I'd ask for any advice or suggestions here first.

Thanks.

Z.

Click to expand...

I had the same thing happen to me, earlier this week. My PILA IBC, which had been working flawlessly, suddenly seemed to be overcharging cells. I had one 18650 cell that measured over 4.3V!

Whahappened!!

My multimeter's battery was low. Replaced the 9V battery and it shows none of the cells were overcharged. Duh ... :tinfoil:

Mr Happy said:

... At some point I'd like to get hold of a good voltage reference to compare against.

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I don't know anything about the subject, but your comment reminded me of something Alan_B wrote in the Hotwire Regulator thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2781139&postcount=356

UPDATE FROM OP

I found an excellent electrical supply store which let me use a Fluke 179 to test my cells. A day after charging they read 4.197 on the Fluke, but all over the place on the other multimeters in the store. I ended up ordering a multimeter which read 4.20, which was the closest to the Fluke reading.

Glad to hear your Pila IBC is OK after all.

Hello Ziemas,

Thanks for reporting that.

The Pila IBC charger has been exceptionally good at limiting the charge to 4.2 volts. I suppose it is possible for one to slip through QC, but I have come to expect them to limit the charge to 4.2 volts.

I just checked a new cell that I am testing and it came off my Pila IBC charger at 4.195 volts. This seems to be in close agreement with what you are getting.

Tom

My Pila charges up to 4.2V

I have a Mastech DMM and it also seems to read high. Compared to a selection of other meters, it seems to read about 0.01V high on the 4 V range.

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The lower priced Mastechs that I've seen had a small Potentiometer that you can adjust with a small screwdriver. You'll see it when you change the battery - unless it has a special battery compartment. Although 0.01 Volts is pretty accurate.

Elliot said:

The lower priced Mastechs that I've seen had a small Potentiometer that you can adjust with a small screwdriver. You'll see it when you change the battery - unless it has a special battery compartment. Although 0.01 Volts is pretty accurate.

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Thanks for the tip. I have this meter and unfortunately I don't find such an adjustment screw. I suppose it is necessary to open the case to reach it. However, it would not do me much good without an accurate voltage reference to compare to.