Forward vs. Reverse clickie

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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I had bought a forward switch for Fenix at Lighthound.

I installed it in my EDC P2D.

But I got SO used to click bump bump that I have been clicking this forward switch a LOT.

Not so much on any other light I own but my P2D is made for a reverse!

What say yee?
 

kramer5150

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With multi mode lights, either is fine with me, I can get used to anything once I learn the UI. Although with single mode lights forward clicky is a definite preference.
 

LukeA

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I like forward clickies for multimode. I don't like bumping the switch and changing modes. I like locking in the mode with a click.
 

yellow

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the forward is nice when You use the light for short bursts, as You can engage and disengage it without fully klicking
(means one Klick less)

imho a not so used-to-multimode-lights person is better off with Fenix' reverse siwtches and UI.
 

Kiessling

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If I were a multi-click UI user I'd be torn on the issue, provided the quality of the switches is comparable.
I think those lights are an area where a reverse clicky has its uses, especially in a non-tactical environment.

It is, after all, one more choice.

bernie
 

nerdgineer

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No proof, but I have the definite impression that reverse clicky switches have simpler internals than forward clickies, and therefore tend to more reliable when both are built to the same price point. Just my opinion and impression from some of the anecdotes around here.

Also, while I like having a momentary, that capability is largely negated when a clicky switch is recessed behind a tail standing collar. Makes it much more cumbersome to do momentary for my hand. If it's going to be momentary, then I want it to PROTRUDE like on the old EL XM-3 and similar lights.

If it's going to be tactical, then I probably don't want a clicky at all, except maybe the clickies on the big Maglites because those switches are much larger and Maglite had the room to make them more robust and reliable.
 
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LukeA

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Yes, a reverse clicky is way simpler to do and can be smaller.

I don't know if I'd call exactly one less part "way simpler to do." And the type of switch has nothing to do with how big it can be made. Certainly, very small reverse clickies have been manufactured in large numbers, but that's no indication that forward clickies must be larger.

Reverse on top, forward on bottom.
Photo0238.jpg
 
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ZMZ67

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I havn't tried a forward clickie on my P2D but I am inclined to agree with the OP.The reverse clickie works well and seems to have advantages with the multiple modes of the P2D.For other lights a forward clickie is desirable because it offers momentary on.I don't know if there has ever been a serious study but from what I read here reverse clickies seem to be more reliable on average than forward clickies.
 
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Bullzeyebill

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I recall some posts on CPF in the AW IMR thread relaying info that the reverse clickie was hardier with high current loads, that it could handle high currents without failing, compared to forward clickies.

Bill
 

LukeA

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I recall some posts on CPF in the AW IMR thread relaying info that the reverse clickie was hardier with high current loads, that it could handle high currents without failing, compared to forward clickies.

Bill

That's utterly absurd. The switch rating is what determines what load a switch can withstand. It has zero to do with what kind of switch it is.
 

Kiessling

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Maybe the switch rating depends on the construction of the switch which depends on the type of switch?
Not too absurd I think.
 

TITAN1833

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IMO they both have their place the forward clickies place is in a flashlight and the reverse clickie is at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean. JK :naughty:

I only wish they would make either quieter though,as some can be very loud.

BTW a plus for the forward clickie is the momentary on feature,it comes in handy at 03.00am as I don't need to click and wake everyone up :D
 

LukeA

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Maybe the switch rating depends on the construction of the switch which depends on the type of switch?
Not too absurd I think.

Forward and reverse clickie switches are electrically identical. A round metal plate connects two rectangular plates to close the circuit. All flashlight-sized clickie switches have this same method of actuation.
 

nerdgineer

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Forward and reverse clickie switches are electrically identical. A round metal plate connects two rectangular plates to close the circuit. All flashlight-sized clickie switches have this same method of actuation.
I think a reverse clicky has a ball point type of click mechanism where "closed" means that 2 contact plates are held together under spring pressure, like how the top of the pen refill contacts the inner body when the pen point is "in". Clicking "open" withdraws the plates and holds them apart, like how the top of the refill being held away from the inner body when the pen point is "out".

This has very few moving parts, and 2 good sized (compared to switch size) contact plates held together under spring pressure when closed for best current capacity.

It seems to me a forward clicky would need some secondary contact system to close the circuit on a partial push, in addition to the primary contact from whatever ball point clicky mechanism it uses, which would make it a touch more complex and hence, expensive. Or the switch contact would have to be a sliding contact which wouldn't be quite a positive as a face-on contact under direct spring pressure.

So...I think at a similar price point, the reverse clicky would have an advantage, but that's just my opinion... Maglite gets away with it because they have BIG clicky parts and bit contact surfaces and heavier metal parts than most tail switches.

Pouring more money into one of the other would of course improve reliability (e.g. NASA manned space flight designs...) but that's the answer to a different question.
 
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LukeA

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I think a reverse clicky has a ball point type of click mechanism where "closed" means that 2 contact plates are held together under spring pressure, like how the top of the pen refill contacts the inner body when the pen point is "in". Clicking "open" withdraws the plates and holds them apart, like how the top of the refill being held away from the inner body when the pen point is "out".

This has very few moving parts, and 2 good sized (compared to switch size) contact plates held together under spring pressure when closed for best current capacity.

It seems to me a forward clicky would need some secondary contact system to close the circuit on a partial push, in addition to the primary contact from whatever ball point clicky mechanism it uses, which would make it a touch more complex and hence, expensive. Or the switch contact would have to be a sliding contact which wouldn't be quite a positive as a face-on contact under direct spring pressure.

So...I think at a similar price point, the reverse clicky would have an advantage, but that's just my opinion... Maglite gets away with it because they have BIG clicky parts and bit contact surfaces and heavier metal parts than most tail switches.

Pouring more money into one of the other would of course improve reliability (e.g. NASA manned space flight designs...) but that's the answer to a different question.

Can you see my above picture? The top switch is a reverse clicky. The bottom switch is a forward clicky. The forward clicky has exactly one more part (a spring that keeps the circuit closed after the click) than the reverse clicky. There's no second set of contacts or sliding or anything like that. They both operate with the same mechanism (like a clicky pen).

The only differences between the two switches is the direction the springs push and whether the contacts touch the top or bottom of the contact plate.
 

nerdgineer

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Can you see my above picture? The top switch is a reverse clicky. The bottom switch is a forward clicky. The forward clicky has exactly one more part (a spring that keeps the circuit closed after the click) than the reverse clicky...
Oops. Couldn't really see the picture well. So, my speculation about switch design is wrong, but it is still one more part for the forward clicky which in a large production design might have an impact. Or it might not.

I have 2 further thoughts, now that we've warmed the subject:

1) (And you'll have to look at your switch parts to tell me if this is so) I think the reverse clicky button pushes against the pressure of one spring when you're activating it; and when you release the button after turn ON, the full pressure of that spring is holding the contacts together.

When you push on the button of a forward clicky, are you not pushing against the pressure of both springs to actuate it? And when you release the button, aren't the contacts only under pressure of one of those springs, with the other pushing only against the button? If that is the case, then wouldn't a reverse clicky be applying more spring pressure onto its' electrical contacts than a forward clicky of the same felt spring pressure? More pressure on the contacts could increase reliability. Or is that not the case based on what your parts show (can't see well enough to tell)?

2) More importantly, I'm thinking there might be more of a variation in forward clicky designs than in reverse clickies, and that may be part of why I have my impression. I know that my Kroll switches (on the old Arc LS) were certainly designed differently than what you show and they (in my experience) had horrible reliability - and I did take one of those apart trying to fix them.

I don't know how S*****re clickies were designed, but there were stories about some of them for a while, and they cost an arm and a leg.

I have had both forward and reverse clickies in modern lights since those Kroll's and neither have failed me so far; but as I mentioned above, the forward clickies just don't buy that much convenience for me when they are recessed into the tail. Must be my fat thumbs or something.
 
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