The New King of Throw: Reflector Types Only; Tested and Confirmed!

Comment__A10 R2___A10 R2__ DBS R2 SMO__Raidfire Spear Hi__Raidfire Spear Hi__DBS R2 OP__DBS MCE__Lumens FACT. EO9,
Lux @ 5m: 2021___1962____920.4________836.5___________578.2_________556.4_____395.8_________389.8,
Lux 1m:__50525__49050___23010________20912.5_________14455________13910_____9895__________9745,
(calculated) best____fully_____not___________best______________fully___________not________not_____________not ,
___________focus__tightened__adjustable_____focus_____________tightened______adjustable__adjustable______adjustable,

MrGman (me) and WBP just finished taking readings in a collaborative effort to determine which of the hot thrower flashlights had the best lux readings at 5 meters, 16 feet and 5 inches from torch front glass to Orb Optronics SP100 ($8,500.00 Spectral Radiometer) meter. In a darkened room with this calibrated meter, the following lights were tested multiple times each. Those that had adjustable focusing were adjusted for best possible readings and set to fully tightened down position. The best reading of each is shown.

The RaidFire Spear, using a very good brand 18650 battery, The Dereelight DBS 3SD V2 R2 (think I got that full title right, thrower model with R2 pill), also with a very good brand 18650 battery. Then the new Tiablo A10 R2, with 2 mostly fresh Surefire CR123 batteries. That is what it can take for best performance and since we are looking for best possible performance, that is what is used The Dereelight DBS with the MCE pill and orange peel reflector, was then tested also.

For grins I threw in the Lumens Factory incandescent Extreme Output 9V (EO-9) lamp inside a Solarforce host with 2 new AW 18650 batteries and the custom modified A/R coated glass in the bezel. This is supposed to be a 380 bulb lumen lamp. I am guestimating its 260 or less lumens out the front, have not yet measured this one.

Those readings were then compared and calculated back to 1 meter by multiplying by the square of the change in distance from 5 meter back to 1, which is 5 squared or 25, so each reading at 5 meter was multiplied by 25 to give the "calculated" 1 meter reading. We believe based on other testing that these powerful lights with big reflectors and tight spot beams are measured far more accurately at 5 meters than at 1. These units were all done tonight at the same distance and with the same meter so there is no way to say that the technique favored one over the other. Being thrower type flashlights no one is going to really use them at 1 meter anyway so we believe these results are far more realistic.

Don't ask for measurements at 1 meter, we aren't going to bother.

In case the table above gets messed up when I post this, the Tiablo A10 was far and away the brightest light with up to 2K lux at 5 meters, the Dereelight DBS with R2 pill was only 920 lux, the Spear was 836 lux, Dereelight MCE only 395, and the Lumens Factory module only 390 lux. We also threw in the Dereelight DBS R2 with the Orange peel reflector.

There is no question that the Tiablo A10 was much brighter in the hot spot than the other lights period!.

We took the 3 contenders outside and looked at some trees about 80 yards away back and forth and there was no question, the Tiablo A10 was the clear winner. Smaller but much brighter hot spot. Didn't have time for beamshots, don't want to bother with more pics of green trees in the dark, seen enough of that. At another time if necessary I shall pull out my color targets and post them about 100 yards out.

WBP simply said, "I am buying the A10 tomorrow!".

Truth is Truth.

Thanks to WBP for his time and use of his excellent equipment.

This glorious work does not include or pertain to lights with specialized optics that are so finely focused that they act like a projector. :nana:

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

finally the DBS relinquish the top spot

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

The only question I have is this:

Why would someone invest in a $8500 light meter??:eeksign::wow:

But, I for one do appreciate calibrated instruments. Thanks for giving us this feedback. I'm curious to see how the Eagle 8w would fair.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Technically the DBS is adjustable, but with the DBS the best results are usually with the pill screwed in all the way. The DBS can also throw a bit better if a CL1H pill is used as it gets the emitter a bit further in, but I'm pretty sure you'd have a hard time getting over 30,000LUX with the DBS. The A10 should beat the DBS with the larger reflector, but the entire light is larger than the DBS, Spear, Tiablo A9, etc. It's almost in a new size class.

Can the A10 fit in a front jeans pocket? I'd be interested if it was easy to pocket carry.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Err.. you do realise that the beam from a flashlight is diffused right? Unlike that of something like a lens focused spotlight or projector, you cannot use the square-root ratio for this calculation. The result will be higher than it actually is.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Splunk_Au said:

Err.. you do realise that the beam from a flashlight is diffused right? Unlike that of something like a lens focused spotlight or projector, you cannot use the square-root ratio for this calculation. The result will be higher than it actually is.

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Yes we know which is why we took the readings at 5 meters, which we believe are more accurate overall, and clearly posted that the 1 meter readings are calculated, its a rough order number. Some have shown that the 1 meter readings actually taken can't be accurate for these high power lights. Going strictly with the 5 meter numbers the results are clear.

The A10 does not fit in you pocket. I already have 2 holsters for it, one I made myself, that works quite well. Its not that much bigger than the other 2 lights other than the reflector.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Actually its not the readings which are innacurate for high powered lights, it's the visual perception. Using a proper lux meter will be accurate regardless of distance as long as the intensity is within the meters range. I personally feel this calculation method incures uneccesary complications to measurements trends, but hey that's just me

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Splunk_Au said:

Actually its not the readings which are innacurate for high powered lights, it's the visual perception. Using a proper lux meter will be accurate regardless of distance as long as the intensity is within the meters range. I personally feel this calculation method incures uneccesary complications to measurements trends, but hey that's just me

Click to expand...

The measurments at 5 meters to compare the actual lights and determine which had the better throw was the goal, the calculated numbers of 1 meter was thrown in. As you said the measured numbers are accurate, definitely taken with a good proper meter that reads out true lumen/meter squared (lux), calibrated, has a known reliable usage history.

The readings at 5 meters show a clear difference of these lights, which does not contradict the order of results by Light-review.com, just provides what I would say is a good correlation.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Outstanding job!!!

Thanks a lot for doing it for our community.

That's it now, I'm gonna have to order an A10...

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Ryanrpm said:

The only question I have is this:
Why would someone invest in a $8500 light meter??:eeksign::wow:

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It's much more than a light meter! It's a full on spectroradiometer, the only truly accurate instrument for measuring light and color. In my business I have to have this kind of accuracy. If I could afford one I'd have a Minolta CS-2000 instead, but that's nearly 4 times the price... :eeksign:indeed!

GMan's right, the A10 was far and away the best thrower of the bunch. That big reflector really concentrates the light. Some beam shots in light fog would be fun.

William

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Thanks For The Hard Work!!!....also, good job Tiablo!

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

BEAUTIFUL!!!

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

What about the Tiablo ACE?

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

paulr said:

What about the Tiablo ACE?

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Buy one and send it to us and we'll be happy to measure it...

But it's not a thrower, which is what this thread is about.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

MrGman said:

WBP simply said, "I am buying the A10 tomorrow!".

Click to expand...

"tomorrow"? Nope...

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

MrGman said:

The measurments at 5 meters to compare the actual lights and determine which had the better throw was the goal, the calculated numbers of 1 meter was thrown in. As you said the measured numbers are accurate, definitely taken with a good proper meter that reads out true lumen/meter squared (lux), calibrated, has a known reliable usage history.

The readings at 5 meters show a clear difference of these lights, which does not contradict the order of results by Light-review.com, just provides what I would say is a good correlation.

Click to expand...

I fully support the method of taking the lux readings at a longer distance for throwers, and calculating back to 1 m. It is true that the value you get is different from what you would measure at 1 m, but it is a value much more representative of the throw.

At long distance (throw distance) the square root law is quite accurate. If we get a lux measurement somewhere out in the region where this law applies, we can calculate the illuminance at any other distance where it applies. I have inverstigated this for my DBS, and found out that from about 5 m and outwards, the sqare root law is quite accurate. The bigger the reflector and the better the throw, the longer this minimum distance has to be.

For lights with smaller reflectors the law becomes quite accurate also at 1 m. This means that they can be directly measured at 1 m and get a number representative for the throw. To be able to compare lights, it is nice if the illuminance is given at a standard distance, and this distance seems to have been standardised at 1 m. This is also very practical. If you want the distance where the illuminance is 1 lux (usable light), you just take the square root of the (representative) illuminance (lux) at 1 m.

So many thanks to MrGman and WBP for these very interesting measurements. The only thing that concerns me is that you do get so much lower readings for the DBS than I do. I have a quite cheap lux meter, but most of my earlier measurements seems to correspond much better with what others get. Is there any way to check a lux meter without having access to advanced equipment?

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Thanks Guys.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Yessss! Finally its confirmed Tiablo A10 R2 is the new 'King of Throw', thanks for results and effort:twothumbs.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Looking at some of the beamshots it looks like the ACE has around the same central hotspot intensity as the R2, but a bigger hotspot (and higher power drain) because of the multi die led. If I do buy one I'll be happy to send it to you for testing.

Re: The New King of Throw Tested and Confirmed!

Thanks for doing the tests at 5m this should be the standard for throw,but for size I'm sticking with my Eagle and DBS.
now we need a test for the flood/throw MC-E lights Jet M1X,DBS MC-E and ACE my guess is the M1X will be the winner here that said we have to wait for Neoseikan's L2 to be finalised this could be the dark horse in the MC-E league IMO