How to help others understand LED's?

I am a member at gun forums and I try to help others understand the Cree R2's they just purhased on Ebay don't make 290, 360, 400 lumens. I tell them the Cree R2 and Q5 are great and cheaper at DX, but the lumen output is a lie.

I say get a Malkoff M60 and compare it to your 400 lumen LED P60 drop-ins, but no one does. People think spending $55 on 225 lumens is dump when ebay's $40 dollar Cree makes 290 to 400 lumens.


I feel like giving up and let people get ripped off, I just feel it is our duty to save them. I especially feel bad since I made those very same mistakes early on.

What to do???????????

double, sorry.

The simple fact of the matter is that you get what you pay for when you are comparing a Malkoff P60 drop-in to an e-Bay drop-in.

Gene builds a quality product that is not overrated hype.

hey dood...
yeah its the classic pitfall of lux versus Lumens, over-rated specs versus honest ones.

IMHO you can't help those people who don't want to be helped. Just tell them about CPF and let them help themselves when they are good and ready to surf over and accept the truth.

kramer5150 said:

hey dood...
yeah its the classic pitfall of lux versus Lumens, over-rated specs versus honest ones.

IMHO you can't help those people who don't want to be helped. Just tell them about CPF and let them help themselves when they are good and ready to surf over and accept the truth.

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howdy kramer,
Yeah I mention CPF, but there is no easy answer and I think people get discouraged with the tons of info. Especially the technical stuff.

why bother?

if someone does not belive, Your light will be "better"

I gave up trying to offer my opinions to nonflashaholics. To them it just a light and the other factors that make our lights better than theirs make no difference them. Oh well, what can you do?

yellow said:

why bother?

if someone does not belive, Your light will be "better"

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So wrong yet so right. :devil:

I like to throw facts until the person agrees.

Post this(Q5 testing) and this post(R2 testing) there(I'd ask jtr1962 first) and Cree's own specs would probably help too. Cree only recommends up to 1 amp to the LED, anything more and the LED is considered over-driven, and none of the lower cost drop-ins overdrive their LEDs. Even if the LED is driven at 1 amp, that's around 270 lumen from the LED with a real R2 bin, which probably none of the cheap drop-ins have(as proven by this thread, probably from the same maker). Even at 2 amps the LED still isn't making 400 lumen, this is before optical losses from the reflector and window(or lens).

No reflector is 100% effective, most of the ones are around 85-90% efficient, add in the looses from the window, that is around 15-25% of the output lost through the window.

Also post links to the DX and eBay drop-ins. They are all the same or similar, point out the similar labels, voltage range, and such. Of course,they are probably also all from the same factory.

whip out your M60 and compare it side by side.

rockz4532 said:

whip out your M60 and compare it side by side.

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And or get beamshots(camera on manual and post the settings).

I have put up pictures and stress the value of DX drop-ins and the benefits of M60, M30, ect...

Some folks think I am trying to sell them something by sounding informative.:sick2::sick2::sick2:

I think if I keep it simple people will understand better, but LED's are technical stuff. More amp draw output and more voltage does not always equal more lumens and visa versa. It is a complex system of the circuitry involved and who can spend the trial and error to get it rigt. (Gene Malkoff). I don't even need a MC-E, but to help his research and pursuade him to keep poping out new stuff I will get one or two of those puppies.

All in all I think I will keep it simple and if that doesn't work then I will enjoy my P7, MC-E, M60, and Cree drop-ins.

Gunner12 said:

And or get beamshots(camera on manual and post the settings).

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Or have them in the same image and then it doesn't matter.

LukeA said:

Or have them in the same image and then it doesn't matter.

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Good point, but they might say he mislabeled them. Maybe light up the lights too when you get the beamshots and make sure the lights are in the picture. Even better would be to have the drop-ins wired via alligator clip or something so they can't say you swapped the drop-ins.

Not sure if you are willing to do so much work though.