Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died [UPDATE: Patient #2 LIVES!]

DonShock

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Messages
1,641
Location
Belton Texas
JOJOBOS recently gave me a ZebraLight H30 to try to use as a host for a modification. JOJOBOS had already removed the switch assembly but could not get the driver or LED out. Based on what I could see of the construction, I was pretty certain I would have to kill the LED to get it out, but I had hoped to disassemble it without damaging the circuit. I was able to get it disassembled, but due to a misunderstanding on my part about how it was assembled, the driver was also killed in the process. However, I think I learned enough in the process to give others an idea how disassembly may successfully be done in the future.

I'll try to describe what I did, along with my errors, and offer some suggestions along the way. I received the light with the switch assembly already removed. The retaining ring for the switch cover is attached with three small screws which are easily removed. Once removed, you can desolder or cut the wires going from the switch PCB to the driver PCB. After this is done, you will see the heatsink and top of the lens over the LCD. This appears to be epoxied in place. This was where my personal adventure began.

To start with, let me explain my main error that killed the driver. Looking down the battery tube, it appeared to be a solid piece with just the positive contact in the middle. I hollowed the center of a dowel so I could apply pressure to the outer edges and drive the LED/PCB assembly out the switch end of the light. WRONG!!! What appeared to be a solid ring was actually just a cover over the SMD components on the driver board.

By applying force, I broke several off in my attempt to drive out the assembly, thus killing the driver.

After getting no movement when applying force from the battery end, I applied force from the switch end. I knew I was in trouble when something tiny flew out the end of the battery tube as I turned it over. Unfortunately, it was lost in the carpet so I didn't see what it was. Oh well, no turning back now!

Applying force from the switch end did produce a little movement. The LED didn't budge, but I was expecting that since the covering lens protruded through the hole in the case. Since my goal was to eventually swap in a red LED, I was prepared to destroy the LED anyway. I was using a punch in the center of the heatsink to try to drive out the LED/PCB assembly. Since I was getting movement, I kept on going until the entire assembly was pushed out the end of the tube. The LED dome stayed in the light and the LED base was completely seperated from the driver board.

One good piece of news was that the potting compound was not hard epoxy but soft silicone. So I was able to remove it all without further disrupting the assembly so I could get an idea of how everything was assembled. The plastic lens appears to be premolded onto the LED itself. I could never get the metal ring of the Cree LED pulled out of the plastic lens even after digging out the LED die and dome remnants.

The hard plastic lens appears to be either cast or glued onto the LED itself. So any emitter swap will almost certainly have to skip reusing the hard plastic lens.

I think I understand how this was assembled and have some hints on how it may be disassembled. The driver PCB has the LED installed "on edge" with a couple stiff riser wires supporting the LED. This appears to be the first piece installed.

The riser wires not only provide electrical connections but allow the LED to be pushed in slightly to allow the dome to clear the edge of the recess and then pushed back out to insert the dome in the hole. The switch wires will feed through holes in the heatsink and the heatsink then appears to have been inserted behind the LED. This locks the LED in place and probably deforms the plastic dome slighly to form a water resistant seal between the dome and the body. Then the switch PCB appears to be installed on top of the heatsink and the switch wires soldered into place. The final step is putting on the switch cover and retaining ring.

To attempt a successful disassembly, the first step would be what JOJOBOS did, remove the switch PCB assembly. After that, the heatsink needs to be PULLED out the switch end. Straighten the switch wires so they will stay with the driver PCB and not get pulled out with the heatsink. A stiff hook of some type, like this ring that came with some bulbs I bought, needs to be inserted through the hole in the heatsink then hooked under the heatsink.

Care needs to be taken to avoid snagging the inductor on the driver PCB. This should allow the heatsink to be pulled out. I think the heatsink will pull off the top of the silicone potting compound. Once the heatsink is no longer behind the LED, it should be possible to push in the LED dome enough to clear the edge of the hole. Then the LED/PCB assembly should be able to be pushed out the battery tailcap end of the body. Once that's out, the potting compound can be pulled off exposing all the connections for modding possibilities. As mentioned earlier, if the LED is swapped out, the hard plastic dome is probably going to stay with the old LED, so it won't be able to be used to cover the new LED.



Well, my surgery was somewhat of a failure. But I hope this post helps others in their modding efforts. I may still manage to turn this into a direct drive red LED light for use with my telescope. I want to also make sure to make a special thanks to JOJOBOS for sending me this light for free. It made my error in this case a less painful event than my past modding mishaps. I think I'm going to have to pick up another H30 to make a second try at an emitter swap.

UPDATED 3-7-09: Second patient survives surgery, see Post #40 for photos and details.
 
Last edited:

gillestugan

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
242
Location
Nora, Sweden
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Nice pictures! Sorry for the broken driver, maybe the parts can be soldered back? They are usually quite tough.

I wonder what kind of lens they use. It looks similar to the Khatod PL111806 but i assume it is custom made.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Good work, man!

Now that we know what's in there, or more importantly, where, mods may now be possible.

This is not a failure at all! You didn't know what was in there, so permanent damage to the driver was probably unavoidable. Even the most experienced and knowledgeable modders would have to have gotten lucky not to damage the driver.

Yes!!!, I've got some WW XR-Es on the way.
 
Last edited:

jojobos

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
258
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Thank you Donshock for taking the time to put together a very informative post!


"A stiff hook of some type, like this ring that came with some bulbs I bought, needs to be inserted through the hole in the heatsink
then hooked under the heatsink."

I may add that the top of the heatsink (including the hole) was filled with grey rubbery adhesive. I just took a small screwdriver to scrap everything off. So if anyone can't see the hole, it will be underneath a layer of the rubbery stuff.
 
Last edited:

tnuckels

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
399
Location
Florence, Alabama
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

For some reason I see Mr. Shock in an old B&W movie, standing atop a hill as he tries to quiet the surrounding mob beneath him who are all armed with pitchforks and burning torches.

"It was all done in the name of SCIENCE!"

"burn 'em, Burn 'Em, BURN 'EM!"
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Thanks to your courageous prep work, I was able to disassemble my H30 without any damage, not even the LED. :party:

XR-Es won't be here until Monday, so I won't be able to finish the job until then, but so far so good.

Hear is how to do it...

1. Remove screws, then the retaining ring.
2. Remove switch boot.
3. Pull up on the PC board that the switch is mounted to, just enough until you can snip the wires.
4. Remove excess goo.
5. Pull straight up on the heat sink. (I did this by running a tap into the extra hole in the heat sink, you only need a few rotations, just enough for it to grab firmly, then just pull up. It came right out without much force.)
6. Carefully remove any goo that is in the way of the emitter rocking backward.
7. With a small flat-head screwdriver or similar implement, push down on the driver board all the way on the opposite side of where the emitter is mounted. Try to get the tip of the screwdriver as far against the body as possible as not to damage any components mounted to the PC board. DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THE PC BOARD ALL THE WAY OUT AT THIS POINT. Just push enough to dislodge the PC board.
6. Push the LED inward, while applying downward pressure on the PC board as needed. LED should rock out of its seat and entire PC board should come out the bottom of the flashlight.
7. Carefully remove the rest of the goo.
8. Disassembled.

I don't know what to do about the lens either. I guess I'll have to figure something out.
 
Last edited:

Cuso

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
1,733
Location
Florida
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

OH the horror!!! Poor Zebra....:devil:
 

DonShock

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Messages
1,641
Location
Belton Texas
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Thanks to your courageous prep work, I was able to disassemble my H30 without any damage, not even the LED. :party:......
That's great to hear! That was my main purpose in posting this thread, to save somebody else's H30 from the same fate. I'm proably going to order another H30 and some red crees next week.

Update on the lens dome: I was able to pry out the cree ring and lens from the protective dome. It is very similar to the Khatod lens posted by gillestugan, but is not the same. There does not appear to be a lens shape built into it, just a dome. And it is also smaller. It's a little difficult to get consistant measurements on it because the edges are damaged from the force used to get the parts out, but here's the closest I can get:

Overall diameter: 9.7 mm
Dome diameter: 8.4 mm
Overal height: 5.0 mm
Lip height: 1.5 mm
Inside recess diameter: 6.7 mm with a 6.8 mm step for the metal cree ring
Inside recess height: 4.0 mm
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

I was able to remove the dome lens without damaging either the emitter or the lens. I used a really super thin screwdriver bit to gently pry a little bit at a time working my way around the lens until it popped off.

All I need now is a warm white XR-E.
 

brucec

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
683
Location
New York
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

LLCoolBeans, you never cease to amaze. You think you could get a high CRI Nichia in there? That would be my dream H30.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

LLCoolBeans, you never cease to amaze. You think you could get a high CRI Nichia in there? That would be my dream H30.

I'm reluctant to say it would be impossible, but that would be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

SSC doesn't fit in the lens.

MC-E does fit in the lens, but the base of the MC-E is just a couple of hairs thicker than the XR-E, so without machining the heat sink or lens, the heat sink won't slide in behind the MC-E.

I'm also assuming the MC-E would generate more heat than the H30 can handle. It could be made to fit with only minor modification, though. So I'm tempted to try, just to see what happens. I have a 5A on hand, hmmm should I try it?

XR-E is really your best bet.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Kinda looks good in there.

ZebraMCEFinger.jpg
 

brucec

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
683
Location
New York
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

I'm reluctant to say it would be impossible, but that would be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Ah, I figured as much. And I'm guessing since the Nichia does not have a dome, it might sit a bit too far back even if it would fit. It's too bad because I think the drive current is probably pretty suitable to do the Nichia.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Ah, I figured as much. And I'm guessing since the Nichia does not have a dome, it might sit a bit too far back even if it would fit. It's too bad because I think the drive current is probably pretty suitable to do the Nichia.

Do you know if there is enough current to run the MC-E. I'm pretty good with flashlight mechanics, but my knowledge of electricity and electronics is pretty limited.
 

jzmtl

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
3,123
Location
Montreal, Canada
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

I don't think the stock driver push enough current to make a difference between xre and mce, unless you want to replace the driver too.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

I don't think the stock driver push enough current to make a difference between xre and mce, unless you want to replace the driver too.

Oh, well, no big deal. I'll just wait till Monday for my XR-Es.
 

brucec

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
683
Location
New York
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

Do you know if there is enough current to run the MC-E. I'm pretty good with flashlight mechanics, but my knowledge of electricity and electronics is pretty limited.

The current would have been relatively easy to measure, BEFORE you disassembled your light. :poke: Anyway, I did the standard tailcap measurement and I'm reading 475mA on high, 55mA on med, 15mA on low. The 475mA means about 400mA to the emitter, which would be a bit high for the Nichia to handle. On the bright side, since an MC-E is something like 320lumens at 350mA, that's a heck of a lot brighter than the XR-E while still maintaining the 2.5hr runtime. With the H30's flood beam, I would hate to be your caving partner if you were using a MC-E H30! Looking forward to your successful swap!
 
Last edited:

jzmtl

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
3,123
Location
Montreal, Canada
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

On the bright side, since an MC-E is something like 320lumens at 350mA, that's a heck of a lot brighter than the XR-E while still maintaining the 2.5hr runtime.

Is that in parallel or serial? I recall mce is actually less efficient than xre q5.
 

LLCoolBeans

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,040
Location
Arizona
Re: Zebra H30: surgery was successful, but the patient died

I thought an MC-E might be a good choice because of it's ultra-floody output.

So no one knows for sure if there would be any advantage to swapping with an MC-E?
 
Top