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Thread: The Titanium "Haiku"

  1. #211
    Flashaholic* maxspeeds's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by BigHonu View Post
    Its the same....but different.

    Think the 19 had a sharper transition from spot to flood. The 17 smoothes it out a little more. Don't have my 19 anymore so I'm only going off of memory.
    I wonder how throw is affected by the 17xr reflector? From your observation, it sounds like a more useful "proximity" light with a brighter corona. Perfect for EDC uses.
    Cheers from the McGizmo state.

  2. #212
    Flashaholic* BigHonu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspeeds View Post
    I wonder how throw is affected by the 17xr reflector? From your observation, it sounds like a more useful "proximity" light with a brighter corona. Perfect for EDC uses.
    PM me your address. I'll send you mine to check out if you want.

  3. #213
    Flashaholic* maxspeeds's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    BigHonu,

    I tried to PM, but your inbox is full .

    Cheers!
    Joel
    Cheers from the McGizmo state.

  4. #214
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    hello my light's here
    i'm using all three levels
    and it sure is sweet

    chelly

  5. #215
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Hai! Haiku Haiku
    Hai! Domo arigato
    Gozaimasu
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  6. #216
    Flashaholic* BigHonu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspeeds View Post
    BigHonu,

    I tried to PM, but your inbox is full .

    Cheers!
    Joel
    OOPS! Sorry about that. Cleared some old messages out. Should be good to go now.

  7. #217

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Don,

    I prolly could have read this somewhere but I can't find it...my Haiku is getting stuck on medium or high. I change battery and its fine. I presume that the original battery is getting run-down? Is that the way its supposed to work?

    /bamabenz

  8. #218

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabenz View Post
    Don,

    my Haiku is getting stuck on medium or high. I change battery and its fine... Is that the way its supposed to work?

    /bamabenz
    Same question here in Manhattan.

  9. #219
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabenz View Post
    Don,

    I prolly could have read this somewhere but I can't find it...my Haiku is getting stuck on medium or high. I change battery and its fine. I presume that the original battery is getting run-down? Is that the way its supposed to work?

    /bamabenz
    Someone has mentioned this and and from what I can figure or guess, the inability to switch levels is an indication that the battery is on its last legs. The way the converter works (as I understand it), it stores some energy after being shut down and uses this energy to keep track of how long it's been off. If the light is turned back on quickly enough and the converter had the energy required to keep track, it shifts to the next level. I am guessing that as the battery looses its energy, at some point, the converter is not able to pull enough energy at shut down to stay alert long enough. I suppose my explanation and analogy would make an EE cringe but this is how I view the situation.

    What I don't know is just what it is that is happening and if it is a factor of voltage or current nor do I have any idea of how much more life is available in the battery when this starts to happen?!?!

    You guys who are experiencing this, is it on primary cells or Li-Ion? If you find it ""getting stuck" (not keeping track of the off cycle time), can you switch the light on/off/on real fast and find that it will shift cycle?

    EDIT: I will try to get this question to the converter designer and see if there is any explaination or information he can provide to give us a better understanding of what is happening here. I don't recall having experienced this yet myself but I rotate through a number of lights and have only replaced a battery on a 3S light a couple times. I use SF CR123's and again, I don't recall finding myself "stuck" at a level.
    Last edited by McGizmo; 02-26-2009 at 10:08 PM.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  10. #220

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    I only use primary cells.

    When it is "stuck", switching the light on/off/on real fast has no effect - it will not shift cycle.

    The cell in question measured 10% when tested on a ZTS Pulse Load Battery Tester.

  11. #221
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Silversurfer,
    Thanks for the data point!

    It seems that this getting stuck might be a valuable low battery indicator if it happens when the battery is in fact near its end. This behavior has not been reported to my knowledge or recall (both unfortunately suspect) in regards to the SunDrop. I wonder if there is a correlation with the fact that the Haiku drives the LED at a higher current and if this may have some effect.

    I assume that you can take a fresh battery, set the light at another level and then re install the depleted battery and experience it stuck in the new level?

    Will it shift up from low but then get stuck in medium?
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  12. #222

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Unfortunately, I can't answer these questions.

    I decided to leave the light on using the nearly dead battery to see how things evolved.

    The light simply sucked all the energy out of the battery. The light dimmed. I turned it off before the light went out by itself, and was unable to turn it back on.

    I'll be able to answer you tomorrow, after I see if this recurs with a second nearly dead battery.

  13. #223

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Ok, one more Haiku for the Haiku.

    Functionality
    extraordinarily
    articulated.

  14. #224

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    I'm using a SF CR123.
    I can't switch it on/off/on fast enough to get it to shift.
    The light is pretty bright when this happens -- I think it might be getting stuck on high.
    I've just stuck the battery in my LS20 and no blinking; it lights up on high.
    I'll put it back in the Haiku and see how much longer it lasts...

    It lasted another 10 minutes.

    /bama


    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    Someone has mentioned this and and from what I can figure or guess, the inability to switch levels is an indication that the battery is on its last legs. The way the converter works (as I understand it), it stores some energy after being shut down and uses this energy to keep track of how long it's been off. If the light is turned back on quickly enough and the converter had the energy required to keep track, it shifts to the next level. I am guessing that as the battery looses its energy, at some point, the converter is not able to pull enough energy at shut down to stay alert long enough. I suppose my explanation and analogy would make an EE cringe but this is how I view the situation.

    What I don't know is just what it is that is happening and if it is a factor of voltage or current nor do I have any idea of how much more life is available in the battery when this starts to happen?!?!

    You guys who are experiencing this, is it on primary cells or Li-Ion? If you find it ""getting stuck" (not keeping track of the off cycle time), can you switch the light on/off/on real fast and find that it will shift cycle?

    EDIT: I will try to get this question to the converter designer and see if there is any explaination or information he can provide to give us a better understanding of what is happening here. I don't recall having experienced this yet myself but I rotate through a number of lights and have only replaced a battery on a 3S light a couple times. I use SF CR123's and again, I don't recall finding myself "stuck" at a level.
    Last edited by bamabenz; 02-27-2009 at 06:01 AM.

  15. #225

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Don,

    I experienced the same "stuck" phenomenon with a second Duracell battery - I drew down the battery to the point where the light was stuck on high.

    I immediately removed the battery and it too measured 10% on my ZTS Pulse Load Battery Tester.

    I waited a few minutes - for things to cool down - before reinserting the battery.

    The light remained stuck on high.

    I removed the weak battery and reset the light to low using a fresh battery.

    I then reinserted the nearly exhausted battery.

    The light came on low. I was able to cycle to medium and then cycle to high. It got stuck on high.

    I again reset the light to low using the fresh battery. And then repeated the attempt to cycle the light using the nearly exhausted battery.

    I think I reset the light to low three times with a fresh battery.

    The light never got stuck at medium. It always cycled through to high where it remained "stuck".

    The battery now will not even register 10% on the ZTS Pulse Load Battery Tester - the lowest reading.

    Even with the now nearly exhausted battery, the light will start on low, cycle to medium, cycle to high and then stay stuck on high.

    It will also start on medium, cycle to high and then stay stuck on high.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Silversurfer; 02-27-2009 at 12:19 PM.

  16. #226
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Hi bamabensz,

    It seems that you were at the point on high where the converter was no longer in full regulation but still attempting to pull as much power from the battery as possible. I would guess that this left it no reserve for "short memory" when the light was turned off and then back on again. The Haiku, on high, pulls more power from the battery than any of my other single cell lights and more than the LunaSol's. Had you put a fresh battery in the Haiku, shifted down to low and then put the near exhausted battery back in, it would have been interesting to see if the light would in fact shift up to medium or high and get stuck once again. It would be my guess that this would be the case.

    I don't believe this behavior on low batteries was an intentional design goal of the designer more than just the case of how the converter behaves when it no longer has the power available to perform as designed.

    I think having the light get stuck in a level is a pretty clear indicator of time to change a battery and better than a case where the light just shuts off! With the variations in batteries and converters, I don't know if this behavior you just experienced will be typical, occasional or what.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  17. #227

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Don, the one that I had mentoned to you earlier in email is a primary. I'm not sure what the resting voltage is, but my mini-ZTS tester reports it being below 20% remaining. I need to check it with the MBT-1, as it can tells us if it is below 10% or between 10% and 20%. That is, if I still have that cell...

    It doesn't concern me, though, as I drain my 123's using another light. I vote for calling it a low battery indicator!
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  18. #228

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Hi Don,

    Its absolutely fine that the light works that way...I was just a bit puzzled. For no good reason, I was expecting LS20 sort of behavior.

    Both the LS20 and Haiku are great, but for my usage (dog walking at night in the woods) the Haiku is a bit better.

    Sticking on high is more useful for this activity.

    And I sorta like the fact that this behavior makes it easier and faster to drain CR123s.

    /bama

  19. #229
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Thanks Ray and Bama! Obviously the Haiku is what it is and you guys are helping us all determine just what it might be!

    I did some runtime tests on the light and posted them in the first post even though I don't hold much stock in them. The real world with various applications and use habits of these lights coupled with the variations among the lights themselves is the acid test for them. The phrase you dont' see as much on the forum anymore, YMMV is as true today as it was years back. And in light of this particular discussion not only may your millage varry, the behavior of running out of gas may be different among us as well. It can certainly help to learn the tell tales and indictors of the individual lights as to when the battery is getting down.

    I use low levels as a rule and I don't change batteries that often. Coupled with the fact that I will use different lights, I can go weeks between a battery replacement. I won't admit to the number of times I thought I had a problem with a light all of a sudden and it was on second thought that I considered it might be time for a battery change!
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  20. #230

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    My ZTS MBT-1 shows that my problem cell has less than 10% remaining. 2.62V at rest.
    Last edited by Codeman; 02-27-2009 at 06:51 PM.
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  21. #231
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Ray,
    Put a fork in it...... And run like heck!

    Thanks for the data point. Well it sounds like this locking up is at life's end so yeah, it's a low battery indicator.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  22. #232
    Flashaholic faco's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Such a perfect light and now as a bonus, we have a low battery indicator

  23. #233

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  24. #234
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    This behavior has not been reported to my knowledge or recall (both unfortunately suspect) in regards to the SunDrop.
    At the end of battery life, the SunDrop blinks on, then drops to well under a lumen ... so low that you can stare into the LED and see six tiny dots. Right before that, it would switch all three levels.

    My SunDrop 3S is mostly used on the mid level or the high level, and probably 10% use on low.

    The Haiku, so far, sees most use on low & mid level, as high is extraordinarily bright. I'd love to try that converter in the PD-S, if it would work at all, as the mid level adds a ton of utility.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 02-27-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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  25. #235
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    The Haiku attempts to drive the LED at 650mA at all times whereas the SunDrop attempts to drive the LED at 330 mA at all times. The lower levels are at the same current but with lower shorter on durations in the cycle. (PWM) I suspect this difference alters the behavior of the lights as you approach end of life on the battery. I don't know how the Haiku will behave on the R123's but I would imagine we will find out from those who use the R123's.

    The 3S converter is a completely different animal than the x2 converters used in the PD's. No compatibility there.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  26. #236
    Flashaholic* Frenchyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Don,

    Like I said in another thread I received my HAIKU and I am very pleased with it !!

    I just want to correct one of your line found in your first post
    The size of the HAIKU is not like you wrote it :
    "The Haiku is 3 5/8" (92 cm) long."

    It is only 9.2 cm or 92 mm
    Last edited by Frenchyled; 02-28-2009 at 05:01 AM.

  27. #237
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    Ray,
    Put a fork in it...... And run like heck!

    Thanks for the data point. Well it sounds like this locking up is at life's end so yeah, it's a low battery indicator.
    Here's another data point. My particular high CRI Nichia AMcClickie Mule got stuck on high tonight. I think this is using the 3S converter in the Sundrop at 330mA. The battery read 2.1V (on Fluke, no load), I don't have a ZTS battery tester so I don't know what % that corresponds to. My guess would be "running on fumes". I seem to remember that this has actually happened the past few battery changes, but I hadn't really taken note of it until people started discussing it here. A fresh battery (3.1V on Fluke, no load) will restore the ability to set the light to low and medium. Putting the depleted battery back in will allow it to switch from low to medium to high and then get stuck on high. Pretty much the same behavior as Silversurfer described. My vote is to call this a low battery euthanasia feature.

  28. #238

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    duh...double post edited.
    Last edited by Codeman; 02-28-2009 at 01:02 PM.
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  29. #239

    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    The pretty much sums up the behavior I've seen with my Haiku and Sundrop-3S as well, brucec.

    Definitely a low battery indicator - so it's actually a McFeature!
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  30. #240
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Titanium "Haiku"

    OK, a McFeature it is then.

    Frenchy,
    Thanks. That error was pointed out earlier and I fessed up to it but I failed to correct it in the initial post. I have no corrected it for the late reader not to be confused...
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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