Why don't we see more optics?

In this race to make the brightest lights, why aren't more manufacturers using optics? I'm thinking especially of smaller lights, keychain sized. Say the fenix E01, 12lumens-ish and all flood, but take those 12 lumens and put them through an optic and it'll appear more like 20-25? I absolutely love my cree L1, and Malkoff M60 narrow beam, and they both seem to put out way more lumens than advertized. I just think we should take advantage of this simple tech and use it more often, any one else agree?

Is there maybe a reason they can't be made that small, not as effective or something? B/c if someone can optic my LD01, i'm in!

There is one issue for high end lights. Affordable optics are made out of acrylic. That means it's a soft material for the lens, which means you should keep an additional lens over it for protection. This blocks enough lumens that you start to loose the advantages over a well designed reflector setup.

Marduke said:

There is one issue for high end lights. Affordable optics are made out of acrylic. That means it's a soft material for the lens, which means you should keep an additional lens over it for protection. This blocks enough lumens that you start to loose the advantages over a well designed reflector setup.

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You can bond the optic to a glass lens with optical adhesive to negate most of that interface loss.

I don't remember seeing optics at that size. I'm also not sure if there are any optics for 5mm LEDs.

Some people like more spill beam so they can see more of what is happening around them instead of what is down the road. But yes, an optic would make for a brighter light(more efficiency) and probably a better beam.

Maybe the cost of developing the optic is the problem.

I certainly agree that the optics aren't for everyone, a little flood is a great thing. I prefer my malkoff's 8 degree beam to whatever is in the L1.

I'm loving the 20 degree optic/diffuser in the Malkoff "F" models, and would dearly love to have something similar in a 17mm size for a mod.

Gunner12 said:

I don't remember seeing optics at that size. I'm also not sure if there are any optics for 5mm LEDs.

Some people like more spill beam so they can see more of what is happening around them instead of what is down the road. But yes, an optic would make for a brighter light(more efficiency) and probably a better beam.

Maybe the cost of developing the optic is the problem.

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Both Carclo and Ledil make 10mm dia optics for the XP-E/Rebel. There really aren't optics for 5mm LEDs because that's fairly useless.

Those 10mm optics aren't tighter than 16˚ FWHM, which isn't any tighter than the LD01's beam currently. But more of the output is in the main beam at the expense of spill, for better or worse.

Ok, I might have seen those optics and forgot. So the optic might provide a bit more throw because of more light in the hotspot. Some might like this.

I didn't think that there would be optics for 5m LEDs. It would be pretty useless.

Thanks for the Info!

LukeA said:

There really aren't optics for 5mm LEDs because that's fairly useless.

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Cateye uses fresnel optics together with 5mm to get a tight beam on some of their bike lights. E.g. on the EL300

The post below includes a photo Crenshaw did of placing an aspheric lens in front of a LOD:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2405756&postcount=33v

Here's the whole thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190268

So it's possible and I too would like to see keychain-sized lights that do this.
K

Try an acrylic ball on the E01, I've seen this posted in the past with an Arc AAA. I really wish more light makers would use TIR optics in smaller lights, my Gerber Firecracker at 15 lumens throws better than my 90 lumen Jetbeam CLE V2 and sometimes having little spill can be a good thing. Using another lens isn't a problem as reflectors also need a lens and TIR optics are already more efficient than reflectors. Also the new Princeton Tec EOS optic is the greatest beam I've ever used.

Optics are a specialty item and usually catch the attention of a small group of throw enthusiasts. I think SF has been really great in that department thought and produce and optical geometry which works well for the mainstream user. As you can see from the links above, that kind of beam is very specialized.

IIRC Inova was the first large manufacturer to use an optic in conjunction with a 5mm LED. Its performance was pretty impressive considering its lumen output but fairly dismal as a task light. I still have a green one and a white one but they're never used anymore.

I wonder if the use of an optic is part of the malkoff design patent?

Maybe as far as P60 drop-ins, but there's no way he can hold the patent for all lights, he wasn't the first to do it, he just does it really, really well.