P7 performance in Mr. Bulk DragonHeart and Lionheart

shuter

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I now have both a Mr. Bulk LionHeart and a DragonHeart with P7's installed by Milky. Thought I would share a bit of subjective comparative information for anyone interested in doing the mod.

DragonHeart - SSC P7 CSWOI, stock reflector cut down to open up emitter opening, UCL window, textured adhesive on outside of window. Estimated at 548 Lumens by Milky.

LionHeart - SSC P7 CSWOI, Khatod 28 reflector, UCL window with textured adhesive on outside of window. Estimated at 548 Lumens by Milky.

The LionHeart beam with the Khatod reflector has some minor inperfections that can be seen when shining on a wall or celing but are relatively minimal and I do not notice them in general use.

The DragonHeart beam with the stock reflector has a black spot in the middle that is easily noticed when shining on on a wall or ceiling. The black spot is large and dark enough that I find it noticeable and objectionable in general use. I'm going to look into installing a Khatod reflector like the LionHeart has.

I have heard from many users that are concerned about a lights low setting being to bright, so I compared the P7's to P4's in some other Mr. Bulk lights I have by putting them on the lowest setting and looking directly into the reflector. What I found is that P4's in a DragonHeart or LionHeart are to bright to gaze directly into, while the same lights with P7's are much dimmer on low and I can gaze directly into the reflector. LionCubs with P4's are the dimmest on low being a little dimmer than the P7's.

Heat - I turned the DragonHeart and LionHeart on high and put them on the clock while holding them. The DragonHeart warmed up a little faster than the LionHeart. After running them for three minutes on high while holding them, they were both quite warm but they never got uncomfortable to hold and I would not consider them hot.

When I compare the DragonHeart and LionHeart with P7's to MagLights with P7's indoors they seem to be about as bright. Pretty darn satisfying for a light of it's size sporting my favorite user interface.


I compared the smaller LionHeart and DragonHeart with P7's against a half dozen MagLights with single P7's, tripple P7's, and quad P7's outside at distances up to a block away. While ceiling bounce tests show little difference, outside at a distance, the throw of the larger MagLight reflector is clearly superior. I suspect the same would apply to any lights using P4's. The larger reflectors simply out throw the smaller reflectors. Hope some of the more experienced Flashaholics will enlighten us concerning the relationship with throw and reflector size.
 
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sappyg

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with a name like shuter we need beam shots and pics of those awesome flashlights. :D
i would especially like a before and after of the dragonheart after the khatod reflecto is installed.
 

shuter

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sappyg - My handle "shuter" is shooter spelled phonetically. Not shutter as in camera shutter.

I don't think my camera will allow me to manually set the shutter speed to do a beam comparison for various emitter beam evaluations but I'll look into it. I have recently learned how to host pictures and insert into this forum, so if I can figure out how to make the camera take manual shuttter speed shots I'll do it.
 

Strauss

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Can't wait for the beamshots. If you do get around to taking some, make sure you take a couple pics of the lights themselves.
 

sygyzy

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Is this an optimal mod? I have a Lionheart too and would love to see it upgraded but does the stock board and battery configuration pair well with the P7 led? Could you use a different (read: cheaper) host and get the same performance (lumens and runtime) rather than modding what was a very expensive light?
 

LightHearted

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This sounds great. I'd love to have this done myself. How much does Mr. Bulk charge to mod the LionHeart with a P7, or did you do the mod yourself. Did anything else need to be changed or was it just an emitter swap? What about the reflector?
 

shuter

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Mr Bulk does not do the mod. Milky charged me about $75.00. The emitter and reflector is all that needs to be swapped.

This sounds great. I'd love to have this done myself. How much does Mr. Bulk charge to mod the LionHeart with a P7, or did you do the mod yourself. Did anything else need to be changed or was it just an emitter swap? What about the reflector?
 

shuter

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Optimal Mod? The point here is modding a light you already have. Many of us like the Mr. Bulk lights because of the programable user interface that is thumb activated. The Li-Ion 18500 that the DragonHeart and LionHeart use is a pretty good power source IMO.


Is this an optimal mod? I have a Lionheart too and would love to see it upgraded but does the stock board and battery configuration pair well with the P7 led? Could you use a different (read: cheaper) host and get the same performance (lumens and runtime) rather than modding what was a very expensive light?
 
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LEDmodMan

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Interesting. What kind of runtime do you get out of the LionHeart in this configuration (and do you know what the battery draw is)?

I would love to see more details and pics of this mod in the LionHeart. Might become my 2nd favorite EDC again with that kind of power.

Anyone know if this has been tried with the smaller (but same output as a P7) Cree MC-E?

Oh, BTW,
xscuseless.gif
 
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milkyspit

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Interesting. What kind of runtime do you get out of the LionHeart in this configuration (and do you know what the battery draw is)?

I would love to see more details and pics of this mod in the LionHeart. Might become my 2nd favorite EDC again with that kind of power.

Anyone know if this has been tried with the smaller (but same output as a P7) Cree MC-E?

Oh, BTW,
xscuseless.gif


Modman, +1 on pics! Unfortunately I didn't take any before sending Shuter's lights back. :mecry: :( :ohgeez:

Runtime will vary a little with each LionHeart, but in general, if you're running with an 18650 body I'd expect between 45 minutes and an hour at full power. I doubt you'd really WANT to run it for 45+ minutes at full power, though, as it would get pretty uncomfortable to hold after a while due to the heat! This configuration is best used at one of the lower levels, with full power used as a burst for relatively short durations when you need the additional light... that's how the LH user interface was designed to work, too, so it's a natural match... and done this way, your effective runtime will be several hours, with only modest heat buildup.
:thumbsup:
 

LEDmodMan

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It's been awhile since I had the head of my LionHeart apart, but I believe the original Luxeon is just held down by the reflector with thermal grease underneath. Isn't that right?

I'm SOOO close to buying an MC-E to put in to my LionHeart, but the thermal path has me holding back.

Milky, how do you put the P7 into the LionHeart? (epoxy? screws?) Have you done this with an MC-E yet? (if you want to take this to PM, that's fine)
 

milkyspit

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It's been awhile since I had the head of my LionHeart apart, but I believe the original Luxeon is just held down by the reflector with thermal grease underneath. Isn't that right?

I'm SOOO close to buying an MC-E to put in to my LionHeart, but the thermal path has me holding back.

Milky, how do you put the P7 into the LionHeart? (epoxy? screws?) Have you done this with an MC-E yet? (if you want to take this to PM, that's fine)


modMan, I replace the stock star with one fashioned for the MC-E or P7... in the past I've used new star boards for the task, and more recently have been fashioning custom heatsinking slabs of copper or aluminum on the lathe. To be honest, each time I've upgraded a LH this way I've handled that part of the process slightly differently, making various small improvements here and there as well as tailoring the solution to the emitter and chosen reflector. Not sure that helps a whole lot, but it's the truth!

As for attachment, I've used thermal epoxy in the past with decent results, and more recently have been investing both timewise and equipment-wise in reflow soldering the emitters to boards... the solder reflow does seem to do a better job at moving heat from the emitter slug out to the board. If the board itself is thermal epoxied to the top of the LH control module, that should work fine... it's a larger and less critical joint from a thermal perspective. Even thermal epoxy on the emitter itself, so long as it's a thin layer and you do a good job with it, ought to serve you well in most circumstances.

Hope that helps at least a little!
 

LEDmodMan

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Most certainly if using a star board, I'll make sure the emitter is reflow soldered to that. I'm thinking arctic silver thermal grease will work well under the star if I can put a couple of screws in to hold the star down to the LH body (retaining ease of future upgradeability).

Looks like if I choose to use the MC-E, I'll be in virgin territory. :tinfoil: Not somewhere I haven't been before though. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Need to decide on a reflector too.
 

matrixshaman

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Do these have the stock Dragonheart and Lionheart drivers or was the driver changed out to something that can put more current on the P7's. I ask because I believe the Dragonheart was limited to around 1.2 amps on the highest level. I don't believe that will drive a P7 to anywhere near 548 Lumens. Maybe the driver was modded? I do know from a recent purchase that you can get a donut hole free light with a small reflector on a P7. One inch from a wall and I've got NO donut hole (modded McGizmo reflector).
 
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milkyspit

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Do these have the stock Dragonheart and Lionheart drivers or was the driver changed out to something that can put more current on the P7's. I ask because I believe the Dragonheart was limited to around 1.2 amps on the highest level. I don't believe that will drive a P7 to anywhere near 548 Lumens. Maybe the driver was modded? I do know from a recent purchase that you can get a donut hole free light with a small reflector on a P7. One inch from a wall and I've got NO donut hole (modded McGizmo reflector).


Shaman, these are running LionCub drivers, which are essentially the same as the LionHeart drivers. They handle PWM dimming and otherwise are unregulated, which in this case is a virtue as I chose emitters from my supply that paired well with the voltage delivered by the cells... both lights ended up driving the emitter at or just slightly below spec... which was the intent! :D
 

matrixshaman

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Shaman, these are running LionCub drivers, which are essentially the same as the LionHeart drivers. They handle PWM dimming and otherwise are unregulated, which in this case is a virtue as I chose emitters from my supply that paired well with the voltage delivered by the cells... both lights ended up driving the emitter at or just slightly below spec... which was the intent! :D

Good job! I really didn't intend to doubt they were running that kind of output but I didn't know the Lioncub drivers were unregulated. Mr. Bulk's lights are really works of art and your mods are great. :thumbsup:
 

LEDmodMan

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Shaman, these are running LionCub drivers, which are essentially the same as the LionHeart drivers. They handle PWM dimming and otherwise are unregulated, which in this case is a virtue as I chose emitters from my supply that paired well with the voltage delivered by the cells... both lights ended up driving the emitter at or just slightly below spec... which was the intent! :D

When you say at spec, I assume you mean 350mA per LED die? (1.4A total)
 

milkyspit

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When you say at spec, I assume you mean 350mA per LED die? (1.4A total)


No... the P7 datasheet stipulates a maximum current of 2.8A, meaning 700mA per die... on a fresh charge the cells should deliver something in the 2.4A-2.8A ballpark.
 
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