Tradition/progress poll

Hello..
I would like to see how many of us would choose tradition over progress when referring to a family matter, such as marriage.

Tradition meaning that you follow what your parents have taught, and stay in line with the ancestry, or Progress meaning that you break away from previous expected behavior and do something new.

Well, for my marriage I broke away from family tradition, but did something very old instead of new. Would that count as tradition or progress?

In terms of marriage, I don't think my parents expected me to marry someone from the same ethnicity given the fact they emmigrated to North America but I'm sure they grew up expecting their grandchildren would speak to them in their mother tongue. I was not raised the same way my parents were raised but I think that is a product of environment. I have never been a traditional type of person. I always ended up doing what I thought were the right things for me and if it conflicted with what my parents wanted or expected then that's the way it was. They never put any pressure on me though and I am thankful for that. What I did learn from my parents was the golden rule and for that I am even more thankful.

Coop said:

Well, for my marriage I broke away from family tradition, but did something very old instead of new. Would that count as tradition or progress?

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I suppose if "very old" was something your grandparents or great grandparents did, then I'd say it's Tradition. If no one in your family lineage ever has done it, then I'd say it's Progress.

I didn't vote as there isn't an option for how I do things. "Tradition" doesn't even get considered when I plan my actions as I don't think it matters. If the tradition started because of solid and concrete reasons(a date to plant crops that's after the last frost of the year, for example) and those reasons still exist and apply, then those reasons matter. The tradition, in and of itself, does not.

Like Oddjob, I have done and will do what is best for me and mine, regardless of what is traditional or otherwise.

:buddies:

Diesel_Bomber said:

I have done and will do what is best for me and mine, regardless of what is traditional or otherwise.
:buddies:

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Indeed.. I suppose I'd consider that Progress.

I raised my niece to do what she had to do, she has to live with it, you cannot live your life to someone elses wants, needs, or desires. I guess if a tradition suits you, fine. If not you do what you need to do, tradition be damned. hope that answers.

Diesel_Bomber said:

(a date to plant crops that's after the last frost of the year, for example)

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perhaps metaphor for other crop plantings too. Of the child sort..

Lee1959 said:

I raised my niece to do what she had to do, she has to live with it, you cannot live your life to someone elses wants, needs, or desires. I guess if a tradition suits you, fine. If not you do what you need to do, tradition be damned. hope that answers.

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Tradition is complex in that sense. We all have to live our lives. Our instruction about life comes from other people who introduce it to us. When we become more conscious, through age, we begin to consider our place in the world we were taught about. At a point we either choose to live within the structure of that world or escape it.. Both options appear to be viable.

Live how they've lived before you, or live how you think you should now.

Too vague. Tradition for some might mean honor killings. Progress for others might mean trying to genetically engineer your kids for longer eyelashes...

nerdgineer said:

Too vague. Tradition for some might mean honor killings. Progress for others might mean trying to genetically engineer your kids for longer eyelashes...

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hm..
Lets keep it on the subject of marriage then.

Enzo Morocioli said:

Hello..
I would like to see how many of us would choose tradition over progress when referring to a family matter, such as marriage.

Tradition meaning that you follow what your parents have taught, and stay in line with the ancestry, or Progress meaning that you break away from previous expected behavior and do something new.

Click to expand...

My folks have always supported my decisions in life. I would do the same for my children, and I hope that they would do the same for theirs.

I voted for tradition.

[Lecture mode]
Many traditions are of a more recent data than we care to admit, for example the traditional Scottish Clan Tartans which were more or less invented by an enterprising textile industry in the 19th century (this and many more interesting examples of modern invented traditions can be found in Eric J Hobsbawms book "The Invention of Traditions".)

Interestingly enough same can be said about prevailing moral guidelines for family formation etc. At least in Europe (including the UK) from the 17th century onwards family formations other than the nuclear family have been much more frequent than conservative actors like the church want to admit (i.e. single parents, cohabiting couples or common-law marriages). So what exactly is a tradition or a traditional way of life? More often than not it's an idealized picture of the past arranged to suit contemporary social and political needs.
[/Lecture Mode]

Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation As you maybe can guess I belong to the progressive camp, but am not without semi-traditional traits. Though not married, which is quite common in Sweden, I have three kids with the women who has been my partner for more than 25 years. I buy flashlights (read: lots of flashlights) and she is more inte shoes (read: lots of shoes), come on, could we be more traditional in our gendered preferences? But, and I think that's important, I do not think that my choices and way of live are better or superior than any others (for example married couples, gay couples or single parents). Most traditional or conservative people I know are not that liberal, they start moralizing about others very easily.

herrgurka said:

[Lecture mode]
More often than not it's [tradition] an idealized picture of the past arranged to suit contemporary social and political needs.
[/Lecture Mode]

Most traditional or conservative people I know are not that liberal, they start moralizing about others very easily.

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I like this way of seeing it actually. Not only can tradition be seen as a picture of the past, but also as direction for the future.

It's true about the tendency to gauge others by the beliefs of our own, though. That's kind of a fine line to walk by, and takes a certain amount of reservation to remain choice neutral.

I don't know if traditional and conservative are the same though. That brings an extra level of connotation to the concept. Though traditional values may outline our political views, I don't think that they are intrinsically linked to conservatism.

Anyway, thank you for your input! I look forward to more views from everyone.

Hi Enzo,

I think your absolutely right, one shouldn't sloppily conflate conservatism with traditionalism. Some traditions or traditional behaviours could actually be seen as quite progressive. One example: when Oxford university had to replace some old oak beams in a university hall in the 19th century they could take the timber from oak trees planted by the university in the 14th century for that very purpose, i.e. to replace the beams some 500 years later. Where can you find that traditional kind of far-sighted attention to future generations needs today? What legacy do we leave with this type of long term planning? In my darker hours all I can think of is a disturbed climate and nuclear waste.

herrgurka said:

Many traditions are of a more recent data than we care to admit, for example the traditional Scottish Klan Tartans which were more or less invented by an enterprising textile industry in the 19th century. . .

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What you're saying is mostly accurate, but please correct it to the proper spelling of clan. I don't know if that's correct in Sweden, but in this country spelling it with a K refers specifically to the KKK, which is *highly* offensive.

I choose progressive. I find my parents to be bland and somewhat abrasive of my life style. Not to say I don't agree with some of their decisions, but I prefer to choose my own terms of life as opposed to theirs.

65535 said:

I prefer to choose my own terms of life as opposed to theirs.

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Excellent way of putting it. Thank you for your input.

herrgurka said:

Hi Enzo,

I think your absolutely right, one shouldn't sloppily conflate conservatism with traditionalism. Some traditions or traditional behaviours could actually be seen as quite progressive. One example: when Oxford university had to replace some old oak beams in a university hall in the 19th century they could take the timber from oak trees planted by the university in the 14th century for that very purpose, i.e. to replace the beams some 500 years later. Where can you find that traditional kind of far-sighted attention to future generations needs today? What legacy do we leave with this type of long term planning? In my darker hours all I can think of is a disturbed climate and nuclear waste.

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One shouldn't equate pragmatism with tradition, either. That's a common mistake. What you gave was a great example of pragmatism. Planning for future generations is always a good thing but you often need to have actually been a beneficiary of such planning to see its value. If not, then you might only think about the needs of your generation. Anyway, I think the difference is as follows:

Pragmatism = doing things the same way as past generations because no better solution currently exists (although you would adopt a new solution in a heartbeat if it were indeed superior)

Tradition = doing things exactly the same way as your ancestors for no other reason than that's the way it's always been done, even if it makes little sense given present-day technology. Tradition often precludes progress by not allowing one to be open to new, perhaps better, ways of doing things. That being said, some traditional customs are colorful or interesting, and I see nothing wrong with preserving them for their educational and entertainment value. But they shouldn't be used in everyday life if they represent an obsolete way of doing things.

I'll also add that progress just for the sake of progress isn't always a good thing, either. Perfect example was dismantling a large part of our rail-based transit network in favor of the automobile simply because the auto represented "progress" at the time. IMHO that's caused far more problems than it's solved. Whenever you're thinking about radically changing something that more or less works OK, it's a good idea to think of the long term ramifications a few generations down the road. The US seems particularly poor at doing this lately although it wasn't always so.

I view my traditions as progress because they are at a higher standard than most ppl hold themselves to

SaturnNyne said:

What you're saying is mostly accurate, but please correct it to the proper spelling of clan. I don't know if that's correct in Sweden, but in this country spelling it with a K refers specifically to the KKK, which is *highly* offensive.

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Ooops, sorry, already corrected!

You´re right about the spelling, in Swedish it´s "Klan" (social group often defined by kinship and descent) without the American connotations.

No offense intented at all, just my bad swenglish spelling.