Flashlights for Self Defense? You Serious?

I find it strange that so many people on this forum need three cell-Surefires and HOLAs for "self defense" usage. Surefire marketing aside, how many of us are trained well enough to temporarily blind an determined assailant with a flashlight, deliver a barehanded- or flashlight assisted- strike, and make a speedy getaway?

More likely scenarios: You drop the light. You miss the attacker's face. Your batteries die. You succeed in annoying him with your "combat flashlight" and get even more badly injured. There is more than one attacker. The attacker has a knife or gun.

SWAT teams have guns attached to their Surefires. They train every day to be in combat. Don't believe that because you can move 500 lumens of light makes you equivalent to a professional.

I know Minimags can be used as Kubotans, and the TID looks menacing. But in any serious battle, it seems kind of absurd to depend on a little flashlight to save your life, when so many other objects are much more effective as weapons.

I'm worried that someone who reads Surefire's brochures thinks that plunking down serious cash for a "Combatlight" actually thinks he/she is buying actual security, when they should have taken that money and went to self-defense classes, bought a gun and went to a range, or practiced sparring in a dojo somewhere.

Disclaimer: I am not a self-defense expert. In a life-threatening situation, I will use my legs to their fullest potential and get out of there.

Edit: typo

i don't know how others here may define self-defence, but i would use a surefire for self-defence to spot any potential threats. some may use surefires to blind an assailant to buy some time to draw a weapon, others might use the extra time to put more distance between himself/herself and his/her potential assailant. i'd do the latter, and scoot off as fast as i can the moment i spot anything; better that than to walk blindly into a threat /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In the hands of a trained and capable operator the control of light is one of the tools used to prevail - this is especially true in lowlight/nolight situations. It can be used for more then searching/identification. However, just like any tool taken into a "fight" it can be used against you and may not give you the advantage you were hoping for.

To use light or not to use light is a decision taken at the time based on training and experience.

As a self-defence tool, I consider a flashlight to be useless on it's own. When combined with suitable "Martial Arts"; control of light can be one more method of distraction at your disposal.

Buying an expensive flashlight and expecting it to save your skin without any research into how to use it or getting training or whatever is just as foolish as buying an expensive knife and expecting it to save your skin without any research into how to use it or getting training or whatever.

Al

The same people willing to plunk down almost $100 on a flashlight probably have more than a flashlight with them for self-defense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I know I have multiple levels of defense, first of which is to see if something IS a threat. If you can't see it, it can hurt you. In this case an E2e is just what I need. If I wanted to blind someone I could go bigger, but would it be practical for me? I wouldn't carry it so it wouldn't help me sitting in the car when I need it.

If you've ever been blinded by a HOLA, then you know why it's touted to temporarily stun an assaliant. Giant black and purple hole right in the center of vision. I know I have a hard time doing something if I can't see.

A flashlight as a weapon would not be my first choice. If I did have to use an E2e as a weapon, I'm sure it would be better than nothing. Hard metal hurts more than flesh and bone and the tip will direct more energy in thrusting.

-Jason

Well said, Al!

Well, I don't carry the "big artillery" in photon emitters, so I'd probably use my Arc AAA or Photon II as my "defense light" since they are always with me and readily at hand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


Of course those would be backed up with a S&W 9mm and it's back-up, a KelTec P32.

You see, temporarily blinding, then running from or physically assaulting an opponent is not the best plan of action from a wheelchair. I doubt seriously either would work other than initially - just long enough for the opponent to quit laughing.

It's a very challenging position, you see, because with a manual wheelchair I can't even move it around while aiming a light (or anything else) - my hands are occupied and can really do only one of those jobs at a time.

I'd be happy to hear valid suggestions, though ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I'm not even sure how you can use your light to "search" for threats. In most instances, you have enough light to see people-like objects. Unless you're in complete darkness, you know where people are, and if they are approaching/leaving.

You should be more wary of suspicious activity. Use your brain, not your flashlight. How do you "spot" potential threats? Blind everyone walking down the street?


Tomas: maybe you can rig up an M6 as a headlight and use a remote switch...maybe not.

I can tell you on more then one occasion I have had a bright light give me a feeling of safety. Knowing what is around you is the best defense. I regularly work in dark theatres and large objects get moved all the time. I can't tell you how many times I have had co-workers walk right in to a large object in the dark and seriously hurt themselves, cuts, bruises, and even a couple of trips to the ER. If I turn on my light and avoid the object is this not self-defense? I would say it is.

I have also walked out of another theatre in to a dark alley and used my light to see what was in my path, only to spot 2, shall we say "undesirables" further down the alley, so I promptly turned and went back in the theater and took the long way around. Again I would consider situational awareness and avoidance as self-defense.

Would I ever use my lights to try to stun a would be aggressor, nope, I would run, but hopefully the light would have alerted me to the potential threat long before as it did for me in the past. So again I consider it a great defense tool.

Yes, I am serious, and NO it is not my only self-defense option and tool.

I was so impressed with my friends' 6P that I had to have one for myself. SO amazingly bright, and that was "only" the 60 lumen bulb!

Shrap; a flashlight is ONE option. I hope everyone understands that. And just because it is available to you does NOT mean you have to use it, as it may not always be the best course of action.

I read a story of someone SFing (SureFireing...new word! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) a homeless guy who wouldn't stop bugging the person for change. After a blast of intense light, the guy got the hint and took off.

Here's another example, and the reason why I decided to get a SF: I was on a date, and we were alone kissing and stuff. It was NOT a bad part of town by any means. Then, a gang of about 8 or so guys walks by making some catcalls and stuff. Obviously nothing happened, but it very easily could have, and if something had happened, we would have been vastly outnumbered. Even with a handgun in that case your odds aren't great.

I figure if I can blast one or two of them with the light while also having gun drawn, it will cause them to reconsider. If not, at the very least, they will not be able to see me, but they will be lit up bright as day making good, clear targets for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A light, just like a baton, firearm, pen, etc. is just a tool. Your mind is the weapon.

Well, I'm no expert, but personally, given the choice between anything else in the house (No guns thanks to UK laws), I'd go for the 5D Maglite. Not for the light, but because it seems like a perfectly good alternative to a baseball bat to me, that sucker's heavy!

Shrap,

I think you'll find the videos clips Ken J Good has put online (website something like http://equipyou.com ) shows how light can be used to search and identify (not self-defense)

On a more self-defense related use of light - light can be used to close the gap between you and the target so you can perform your "threat reduction measure" (like floor them for example)

The power of light has to be seen/experienced to be believed. If you are serious and open-minded to different methods - lowlight courses (mainly firearms orientated) will be a real eye-opener that light is used all the time as a weapon.

Al

I can see by the posts not many of you have actually been in the position of fighting for your life and I can tell you from personal experience that when your hand is forced you can become very creative and also extremely dangerous to your attackers with just about any object in reach. I am not trained in any martial arts and have survived multiple attacks some armed, some not and each different from the others in many aspects.

Attackers even when armed are still just as physically vulnerable as you are. They can be blinded, cut, perforated, break bones etc. when you are cornered you have no choice but to fight and a flashlight, knife, kubaton, bottle even a damn brake shoe laying in the street can be utilized. One of my buddies a small guy that weighs in at about 130lbs soaking wet, once ended a confrontation with one blow from an ashtray, the guy on the recieving end was twice his weight! So I guess those of you who aren't trained are telling me that if push came to shove you wouldn't fight, I guess I should say my goodbye's now. The main weapon in your defense is YOU not what you have on you but your mental attitude, your attention, and determination as well as a well developed common sense. Each and everyone of my attackers did not expect one specific thing when they confronted me and that is that I would fight back like I did. They expected me to cave in and cower. I am not saying you won't get damaged in the process I have been cut down to the bone and had my jaw broken but hey, here I am telling you about it.

Anyone telling anyone else that they can't successfully defend themselves untrained and even unarmed is completely full of crap.
When the chips are down if you don't do something you are toast. And sometimes there is no other way out.

As far as a flashlight goes for self defense, they will work in buying you time and can be used to crack somebody's head open, The bezel can be ground between the bones of a hand that has a good hold of you forcing an attacker to let go. Just showing a friend of mine how bright my C2 was I blinded him at 15' in broad day light, in the time it took him to reorient himself I could have escaped out the door or even closed that distance and leveled him with a kick to the groin. It you and how you use it. Keeping your head is the toughest part. Thinking is hard under pressure.

Most products list disclaimers because lawyers bid them too.
Disclaimers are for products not people. The truth of the matter is it's the fight in the person not the person in the fight.

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For an extremely interesting, entertaining, and possibly even enlightening look at self defense with a flashlight, see chapter 11 in "A Practical Self Defense Guide for Women" by Paul McCallum, Betterway Publications, 1991. It demonstrates in considerable detail multiple uses of a M@g 4-D flashlight to fend off, block the strikes of, and incapacitate an attacker (none having to do with the switch on the light!).

Thanks.

a flashlight as an impact weapon without training is useless??

Alright, smack it anywhere on you head as hard as you can...
did you need training for that?

If someones got a weedy punch and a weak wrist, theres no better equaliser then a maglite combined with a hammerfist.

Of course there are better options, but for us English gents, and perons who favour less lethal tools, they are excellent.

Interesting reading:

LIGHT AS FORCE OPTION - PISTOLSMITH FORUMS - KEN J GOOD

Brightnorm

[ QUOTE ]
Zelandeth said:
Well, I'm no expert, but personally, given the choice between anything else in the house (No guns thanks to UK laws), I'd go for the 5D Maglite. Not for the light, but because it seems like a perfectly good alternative to a baseball bat to me, that sucker's heavy!

[/ QUOTE ]

A point well taken. Let's remember there are places here in the land of the free where the law requires you to remain unarmed. Even the above mentioned baseball bat can get you jail time, sadly. From the sixties the cops have carried mag lites with alkaline batteries (back before they were all that common) for the above reason. Ask one who was there.

Having taught defensive gun classes, a good dependable flashlight has a real use in to ID your assailant before you shoot the drunk next door who got mixed up on the way home. There are skills here of course (basically either out to one side so the bad guy shoots at the wrong place or tracking your handgun, a more aggressive posture for sure).

Along with the pistol in the nightstand (a bad place to 'hide' if of course) goes the P6 that's never used for anything else. Also in your 'safe room' should be a stout lock, phone, and set of keys to throw the cops when they (eventually) get there.

What's said about not knowing what you're doing (not practicing) is very true. As Cooper is fond of saying 'owning a gun doesn't make you a marksman any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician'. Mental state, done before the problem presents itself, is the key. You need confidence in your plan and your tools and a desire to prevail.

Human predators are just like the other animals in the jungle. They need to overpower their prey without getting hurt. A lion that comes up lame or wounded will die. A crack addict that gets shot, stabbed or otherwise laid up too badly to mug innocent citizens has serious problems. And they know it.

No, the biggest flashlight in the book doesn't make you safer.....but it can.

Doug Owen

A powerful flashlight is definitely an advantage in a low light confrontation, and I am not talking about the ability to see the attacker (which is also a good thing). I am talking about intimidating. In darkness, when someone points a powerful light at your face, you are not able to see anything else. This automatically puts you in a defensive position. Someone is looking at you. You don't see the person(s) holding the light(s), but they see you. They could take a picture, or they could point a gun at you.

If you doubt this effect, I suggest you do the following experiment: Take your most powerful light (mine is an M2 with HOLA) and give it to a friend, then go for a walk at night. Tell him/her to walk away a few yards and then point the light at your face. When you move, the light moves, too.
See what I mean?

Even when an attacker runs towards the light, you are in a good position. When he gets close, turn of the light. He will stumble in your direction without seeing anything in the sudden darkness. All you have to do is step aside and flee or attack from a superior position.

I'm not convinced of this flashlight self defense concept either, but the best light for the job might be the Magcharger sold on BST a couple days ago. It had Powerstream NiMH cells and a special Welch Allyn bulb supposedly as bright as a Surefire M6 (1/2 an hour of runtime with the NiMH pack). Since it's the size of a 3D Maglight, it's both a very bright light and a rather effective whacking tool. The one on BST sold for $90 which I think is less than most 3-cell Surefires cost.

[ QUOTE ]
brightnorm said:
Interesting reading:

LIGHT AS FORCE OPTION - PISTOLSMITH FORUMS - KEN J GOOD

Brightnorm

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. They offer some interesting opinions, though most sounded a bit too "keyboard commando-ish" for me.

I also think far too many people are misunderstanding: I don't think there is anyone here who seriously advocates a flashlight alone as a SD weapon. True, there are some who don't have the choice, but for those who do, relying upon a small flashlight alone is suicide.

Again, bright flashlights have their place among defensive tools. The secret is knowing when and how to use them. Obviously, if some guy has a gun pulled, you don't blast him in the face with your Surefire.

However, if a drunk won't buzz off, I'd think a blast from the old SF might make him reconsider continuing his harrassment of you.

JMHO...

Yes, at home I need my M3T in one hand & P217 in the other