Surefire L4 used as searchlight

what would you think if somebody on tour of duty in Afghanistan
replaced the searchlicht !!
of a .50cal BMG Hummer mounted machinegun.....and keeps using it
until the end of his deployment....
best of all.....he can not even tell the difference to the previous
machingun searchlight. ( usually Surefire Hellfire with 3500 Lumens )

would you believe it ?

i am pretty mad and dissapointed at Surefire right now, because they told me today they will replace the broken LED of my L4....not with the new 120 Lm Led...but with the old version...that throws out an amazing !!

( honestly estimated : 65 - 75 Lmns )

i was asking them if they kindly would upgrade, even if i would pay difference - they said simply:

NO.

not very happy about that.

I'd bet even money that the new kl4 head you're going to get will throw out at leat 100 lumens.

the L4 was designed for room clearing...what gave you the idea that in urban conditions you can use the L4 as a search light?:candle:

100 lumens versus 1,000 lumens versus 10,000 lumens has different uses

Also...whats wrong with the old version? luxVs are awesome as handwarmers

surefire uses this story....

a L4 as a searchlight on a .50 cal machinegun ?

SURE ! when your target is 20 feet away.....you better stay on the trigger...
and spray.... you might miss....because your target is in total darkness.

still - i hoped they would upgrade my L4....its not getting any use no more
with this output.
might put it up for sale when i get it back.

or mount it on my .308 Socom for combatfield illumination.

( please excuse my sarcasm )

in total darkness [meaning so dark you can see the black fissure in the milkyway] my inova X5 was a wonderful searchlight, [and its only got 5x5mm LEDs]

yet around the neighborhood, its dimmer than the keychain LED compared to all the sodium lights around here.

Different lights for different uses...I read the story [op post] too and ..having owned an HID before and 3 successive L4s later...still could not find a logic to it.
I'm beginning to wonder whether surefire mislabeled an M4 as an L4

I'm not going into the whole story but the L4 was always 100 lumens no matter what the package said (65 Lumens). There was a mistake in the beginning with the test methods and Surefire mislabeled them 65 lumens.

I have to agree with you there as i couldn't tell the difference in brightness from the older L4's compared to the newer packaged ones.
I think they're all putting out over 100 lumens anyway,and the updated SSC ones are most likely over 120 lumens.

Dan FO said:

I'm not going into the whole story but the L4 was always 100 lumens no matter what the package said (65 Lumens). There was a mistake in the beginning with the test methods and Surefire mislabeled them 65 lumens.

Click to expand...

For someone who complains a bit about the Surefire L4 ( https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2851676&postcount=139 / https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2852158&postcount=142 ) you sure seemed to like the light about a week ago.....

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2846329&postcount=18

Hey KRUPPSTAHL i don't know how your mod skills are (mine are pretty basic) but i managed to replace my LuxeonV for a SSC P7 in my L4.
It's driven by the stock SF driver,heatsink.
I run AW 17670 cells in it and i get 1hr.40min run times! The current at the tailcap starts off at about 1260mA then it levels out to 860-900mA for the rest of the run. The light doesn't even get hot,just warm.
With the stock emitter i couldn't get anywhere near these runtimes and the light is MUCH brighter now. I got the idea from CPF member DaFABRICATA.
Type in "P7-KL4" on the search engine and the thread will show up.
Best $20 bucks i ever spent.

Wick said:

For someone who complains a bit about the Surefire L4 ( https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2851676&postcount=139 / https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2852158&postcount=142 ) you sure seemed to like the light about a week ago.....

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2846329&postcount=18

Click to expand...

========================================
no doubt. i like surefire lights.

and i was willing to pay for their warranty......and customer service.
which was....i repeat....WAS ! legendary.
in the meantime, after my warranty experience...i do not like surefire
that much no more......and i am not willing in the future to spend that much money for a product thats simply is not worth the price.
Surefire was kissing the customers butt......long time ago, nowadays,
after having military and LE as their main clients that buy
millions of dollars worth of merchandise....they become conceited.
sure...top notch quality light.....for even more top notch price.
and if you ask them a favour....even telling them that you are willing to pay for the extra expenses....just a simple : NO
can you understand where i am coming from ?

KRUPPSTAHL said:

========================================
no doubt. i like surefire lights.

and i was willing to pay for their warranty......and customer service.
which was....i repeat....WAS ! legendary.
in the meantime, after my warranty experience...i do not like surefire
that much no more......and i am not willing in the future to spend that much money for a product thats simply is not worth the price.
Surefire was kissing the customers butt......long time ago, nowadays,
after having military and LE as their main clients that buy
millions of dollars worth of merchandise....they become conceited.
sure...top notch quality light.....for even more top notch price.
and if you ask them a favour....even telling them that you are willing to pay for the extra expenses....just a simple : NO
can you understand where i am coming from ?

Click to expand...

At SHOT 2009 I played with the new L4 and it is not "the wall of light" that the older L4 is. I am not saying the new one is not a nice light but if you are looking for that room sweeping wall of light stay with the older L4. :green:

How can one get so upset about getting a no for an answer when you asked for a FAVOR?

If SF did that then everyone would be sending parts for free upgrades. i understand what you want, but its unreasonable to complain about that.

Even if you offer to pay for it, they dont offer an upgrade service that i know of, something that goes out of the description, might cause them problems.

Your position is a lot like a tantrum, you just want something, and dont care about anything else.

As far as i see it, they are honoring their part.

Dan FO said:

I'm not going into the whole story but the L4 was always 100 lumens no matter what the package said (65 Lumens). There was a mistake in the beginning with the test methods and Surefire mislabeled them 65 lumens.

Click to expand...

That's what I also thought...

I first got a brandnew L4 for my wife around september 2007. I was so impressed by the floody beam that I needed to have an L4 as well and our local dealer offered me the light of his showcase, pretty new, used only a few times for demonstration and I got it cheaper. The head was olive, not "natural" like the other one.

What a deception at home, the beam was also olive and clearlyx weaker than the one of the new L4. I did some researches and found out about an early version of the L4 (perhaps never sold) with 65 Lumen. The dealer took it back and ordered me a new one, that is now nearly like my wifes' one, which is probably the 5% brighter that LEDs vary inside a bin, mine could be 5% weaker as well.

So, I am sure a KL4 head with 65 Lumen exists, that it has another color and that it was mounted on the L4-body of our Surefire-dealer...

As for the upgrade, I agree with manoloco. Either a company offers upgrades, then you can buy them and get a "new" flashlight for less money (there are who do!) or they simply don't, but then without exceptions. HDS tell the same on their website, that they try to replace your faulty lights with the same parts as you had in the original one. I don't know however, how they do if those parts don't exist anymore and you have a lifetime warranty? Perhaps you are lucky then and get a brighter light back!

I mean if u want to get an upgrade with a warranty purchase, may be surefire is not the brand you are looking for. The moment I bought my surefire last time, I know their stuff are expensive and they are not willing to give free upgrades.

This is why I applaud companies like Pelican. Their warranty are unconditional.Pelican are more likely to give a free upgrade in my opinion because to them once the product is not on their website anymore, you wont get some old stock light.

well, if u really want the new 120 lumens output lamp, you could argued that the 100 lumen KL4 have is an obsolete one hence not restoring your light to the original factory setting which is 120 lumens KL4 at the moment. this is because, they say that they will replace, and repair or refund at their discretion but we are not concern aboutt refund here.

if surefire is the world finest light, why are they not concern in providing you the best with parts from today but instead replacing it with parts from yesterday? if not just ask for a refund for your light due to the poor customer care that they provide to you. their warranty may have misrepresented you in thinking that a repair in your consumer view would not be them(surefire) giving you obsolete parts..

i cant think of anything else to help your claim. or ask the customer care on what grounds they should deny you for up to date parts? then u proceed the case for a review to the manager and etc.. its a hard claim i would say..

seale_navy said:

I mean if u want to get an upgrade with a warranty purchase, may be surefire is not the brand you are looking for. The moment I bought my surefire last time, I know their stuff are expensive and they are not willing to give free upgrades.

This is why I applaud companies like Pelican. Their warranty are unconditional.Pelican are more likely to give a free upgrade in my opinion because to them once the product is not on their website anymore, you wont get some old stock light.

Click to expand...

I broke an old Pelican light by storing it with alkalines (they vented hydrogen and, the light being dive-rated, the pressure built up and cracked the light) and Pelican sent me the updated version.

KRUPPSTAHL said:

surefire uses this story....

a L4 as a searchlight on a .50 cal machinegun ?

SURE ! when your target is 20 feet away.....you better stay on the trigger...
and spray.... you might miss....because your target is in total darkness.

still - i hoped they would upgrade my L4....its not getting any use no more
with this output.
might put it up for sale when i get it back.

or mount it on my .308 Socom for combatfield illumination.

( please excuse my sarcasm )

Click to expand...

by the way, I have yet to ask.. who actually said no to you? the customer care people, or the person that is actually repairing ur light?

because i find it strange for companies like this to be issuing outdated parts to the customer. though they have every right to do so. because if it is the customer care people, the might be trained to say no. but we dont know whether the people on the inside is giving you a new one.

This is rediculous.
All this fuss over a SSC P4 emitter (i'm guessing that's what's on the new L4)? I mean what does it cost $5? assuming the driver is the same. The cost of replacing an LED in a light that's almost $200 is chicken feed.

Surefire is a company known for top shelf quality and customer care,but if i was to put myself in their shoes i would think "if we do this were going to have a million lights returned to us for upgrades"

Just thinking on both sides of the fence here...

The OP is getting his light repaired with the specified LED for the light that he sent in, which runs a boost circuit. What is there to complain about? The newest L4 is a different light running a Seoul P4 LED with a different circuit. Also, we have known for years that the L4 is running at much better than 65 lumens. The replacement Lux V LED will probably output about 120 lumens. This thread is fast becoming another anti SF thread. Let us not let that happen in the manner that causes threads to be closed.

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

The OP is getting his light repaired with the specified LED for the light that he sent in, which runs a boost circuit. What is there to complain about? The newest L4 is a different light running a Seoul P4 LED with a different circuit. Also, we have known for years that the L4 is running at much better than 65 lumens. The replacement Lux V LED will probably output about 120 lumens. This thread is fast becoming another anti SF thread. Let us not let that happen in the manner that causes threads to be closed.

Bill

Click to expand...

Good point.

<< if surefire is the world finest light, why are they not concern in providing you the best with parts from today but instead replacing it with parts from yesterday? >>

SureFire obviously still has an inventory of the older parts. How can you blame them for wanting to use that inventory rather than have it go to scrap and take the loss? Customer service is great, but it quickly becomes of little value if the company providing that customer service goes bankrupt because of poor business practices. In the field I am employed in I could list many examples of "taking care of the customer" at company expense on items that are far outside of their warranty, and this company is now receiving billions of our tax dollars. Yes, they have happy customers, but in their drive to please those customers rather than have anyone mad at them they lost track of the fact that they need to do it profitably, and that means that sometimes you must say "no.". SureFire is fulfilling their promise as per the terms of their warranty. And yes, I would feel that way even if I was returning my L4 or U2.

That being said.....You could possibly wait and return the light at a later date when their inventory of the old style heads and emitters have been depleted. You would be without the use of your light for a time, but you just might get the new head / emitter you desire.