Optimal Batteries & Charger for Lumapower Lumahunter MRV SK v1.1 Tactical

HEDP · Mar 2, 2009

.

Thanks to everyone's input and help on this board I've decided to get a Lumapower Lumahunter MRV SK v1.1 Tactical LED

http://www.batteryjunction.com/lumapower-v11-mrv-sk.html

Now, I need to find what batteries and charger to get. There are two batteries on the page that sells the flashlight and a charger. Then there are 2 batteries that others recommended. Also, what charger is best?

Batteries on the same page as the flashlight:

1.) Li-Ion 18650 3.7V 2600mAh rechargeable battery FULLY PROTECTED with PCB Lithium Ion (as low as) $6.69!

2.) Ultrafire 18650 2400mah BUTTON TOP Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery Li-Ion UF18650 (as low as) $6.69!

And the two batteries that others recommended:

1.) http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-47/trustfire-18650-li-dsh-ion/Detail

2.) http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-2200-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_105.html

The charger:

1.) TL-100 Universal Li-Ion Charger for 18650, 17670 & 16340 cells (as low as) $11.95!

And the recommended charger:

1.) http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire...3-37-volt-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2279.html

The batteries only cost a few dollars difference, so I don't mind paying a little more for quality. This flashlight will be for Police work, so I will be using it a lot. I need batteries that will last a long time and will be recharged quite often.

Also, if I use my flashlight for only a little bit during my shift is it ok to put it right back on the charger to make sure it has a full charge for the next shift? Or will that ruin the batteries? (Memory issues? Should you fully drain the batteries and twice right away?)

Lastly, with heavy usage like police work, how long are these batteries expected to last?

.

HEDP · Mar 2, 2009

Re: Optimal Batteries & Charger for Lumapower Lumahunter MRV

.
No one knows anything about this?

.

lightforce2 · Mar 2, 2009

Re: Optimal Batteries & Charger for Lumapower Lumahunter MRV

I like your choice of gear.

I use both AW & Tenergy 18650's in my Dereelight & Tiablo A9 which are rifle mounted & also in the new Tiablo A10. My usage is in the field of pest animal control where high reliability is also needed, I haven't noticed any difference between the AW & Tenergy (~50 cycles).

Li-ion cells will last longer with shallow discharge/regular charging, you should get 500 cycles, or more with shallow discharges. Deep cycling should be avioded. Also there is no memory effect with Li-ion. I think my batteries will end up degrading from age, if I average 50 cycles per year that = 10 years, I'll probably drop & damage them before that.

The earlier WF-139's had an overcharge/trickle problem, the newer ones are fine. For extra safety its useful to plug the charger into a wall socket countdown timer, I use this one & like it http://www.kambrook.com.au/product.asp?id=50

A basic volt meter is also useful for checking battery voltage for pre & post charging, just another level of safety thats relatively cheap.

HEDP · Mar 2, 2009

Re: Optimal Batteries & Charger for Lumapower Lumahunter MRV

lightforce2 said:
I like your choice of gear.

I use both AW & Tenergy 18650's in my Dereelight & Tiablo A9 which are rifle mounted & also in the new Tiablo A10. My usage is in the field of pest animal control where high reliability is also needed, I haven't noticed any difference between the AW & Tenergy (~50 cycles).

Li-ion cells will last longer with shallow discharge/regular charging, you should get 500 cycles, or more with shallow discharges. Deep cycling should be avioded. Also there is no memory effect with Li-ion. I think my batteries will end up degrading from age, if I average 50 cycles per year that = 10 years, I'll probably drop & damage them before that.

The earlier WF-139's had an overcharge/trickle problem, the newer ones are fine. For extra safety its useful to plug the charger into a wall socket countdown timer, I use this one & like it http://www.kambrook.com.au/product.asp?id=50

A basic volt meter is also useful for checking battery voltage for pre & post charging, just another level of safety thats relatively cheap.

What is deep cycling?

I take it that shallow discharge is what I asked about, using the flashlight only a little bit and then charging it again?

With the Ultrafire charger, should I only charge it for a certain amount of time and then take them out, or is it ok to leave them in there?

http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire...3-37-volt-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2279.html

Another poster said that some folks might have said that the AW batteries might not have as much capacity as the battery in the below link, "Trustfires". Have you heard anything about htis?

http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-47/trustfire-18650-li-dsh-ion/Detail

.
.

HEDP · Mar 2, 2009

.
Also, one charger said it's "automatically charges them to the level required" and the other one says, "Smart charger automatic cut-off".

The "Smart Charger Automatic Cut off" sounds the best, since it would seem if I was gone overnight or longer the battery would be ok if it was left in the charger. And the other charger you shouldn't leave it in, since it will trickle charge the battery and ruin it.

Am I correct?

.

lightforce2 · Mar 2, 2009

What is deep cycling?

Discharging a battery till most of its energy is used & fully recharging it again, however with a protected cell the protection circuit will cut in before the cell discharges to a level too low to cause damage to the cell, I would class this as a "full cycle",

Also, one charger said it's "automatically charges them to the level required" and the other one says, "Smart charger automatic cut-off".

The "Smart Charger Automatic Cut off" sounds the best, since it would seem if I was gone overnight or longer the battery would be ok if it was left in the charger. And the other charger you shouldn't leave it in, since it will trickle charge the battery and ruin it.

All Li-ion chargers should terminate charge to the cell when it reaches ~4.18v - 4.20v, if this can be guaranteed then leaving a cell in the charger should be OK. However its considered best practice to take the cell out once charged. I cant always be around to watch my cells charge, thats why I like the timer to turn things off

Trickle charging a li-ion is a definate no-no, I'm not aware of any chargers that do this by design.
I'm not an expert on this, perhaps silverfox or mcdod could chime in here

HEDP · Mar 3, 2009

lightforce2 said:
Discharging a battery till most of its energy is used & fully recharging it again, however with a protected cell the protection circuit will cut in before the cell discharges to a level too low to cause damage to the cell, I would class this as a "full cycle",

All Li-ion chargers should terminate charge to the cell when it reaches ~4.18v - 4.20v, if this can be guaranteed then leaving a cell in the charger should be OK. However its considered best practice to take the cell out once charged. I cant always be around to watch my cells charge, thats why I like the timer to turn things off

Trickle charging a li-ion is a definate no-no, I'm not aware of any chargers that do this by design.
I'm not an expert on this, perhaps silverfox or mcdod could chime in here

Thanks.

So what do you think about the batteries I have listed? Have you heard anything about the "Trustfires"?

I'm thinking about ordering the AW's you use, though.

Then there's the "Ultrafire" charger vs. the charger that they sell at Battery Junction. There almost the same price, so I just want to get the best one and the one that will Automatically Shut-Off in case I'm not around.

Some guys also said that they charge their batteries in a pan with a top so it doesn't explode, I've never heard of this. I just do mine on the floor, that is carpeted (all the floors in my house are carpeted), is this bad? I've never taken all of these precautions.

.

seaside · Mar 3, 2009

Leading companies like samsung, panasonic. LG and sanyo makes quality batteries. But they mostly are unprotected and not commonly available, because their main target market is notebook computer industry.

Other cheap lithium batteries are about the same regardless of the brands. Some people like Trustfire or Tenergy over ultrafire though, we don't exactly know who makes what. Anyway, they are usually acceptable at cheap prices.

Except those 4 major players, people belive AW is quite better than cheapies in terms of quality. Lot of people here in CPF recommend AW, and I do too.

Protected battery has protection PCB built in the battery, and it cut the charge off when battery voltage gets over 4.25V or under 2.7V. Thus, protected battery is safer than unprotected one.

There are two versions of WF-139 charger. Not all, but some old versions had overcharging problem. I don't recall any explosion regrading that, but it surely will shorten useful life span of batteries. It seems fixed at new version which charges bit slower than old one. Mine does not have any problem so far.

I can't tell you what charger is better than the WF-139, since that's all I have. There must be a better charger out there and hopefully someone can tell you something about it.

So, the best thing is, 1. Get quality protected battery. 2. keep your charger on non-flamable surface at cool temperature 3. Make sure you took them out when they are fully charged. Well... the possiblity of battery explosion is low, but you never know what's gonna happen, so do not go out while the battery is in the charger for safety.

SilverFox · Mar 3, 2009

Hello HEDP,

The reason you can't walk down to the corner store and pick up some loose Li-Ion batteries is that there are some additional dangers associated with them. Most of the dangers occur during charging, so we encourage you to take some extra precautions while charging.

Some of the Li-Ion chemistries can "vent with flame" if the voltage gets too high during charging, or if the cell has been damaged through over discharge and you go to charge it back up. These little cells can have flames that reach over 1500 F, so it is better to charge them on a heat resistant surface.

Protected cells offer another layer of safety, but if you drop your light, it is possible to damage the protection circuit.

This doesn't happen every time, but it is just something to be aware of, and take some precautions against.

I recommend and use the Pila IBC charger, and I also frequently use my Schulze hobby charger. Both of these chargers follow the proper Li-Ion charging algorithm, and the voltage never exceeds 4.20 volts. If your charger charges your cells to a voltage higher than 4.20 volts, you can expect, at a minimum, to wear your cells out quicker. If it charges a lot over 4.20 volts, you can expect a "venting with flame" incident.

Some of the earlier versions of some of these chargers had some issues with overcharging Li-Ion cells. Since then there have been some revisions, and I think they may have taken care of this issue. The other problem has been a lack of consistency between these lower priced chargers. One person will comment that their charger works fine, while the next person will document overcharging.

I perfer to spend a little more for a quality charger, and enjoy the piece of mind of knowing it will take good care of my cells. Others seem to place more value on initial price...

Tom

HEDP · Mar 3, 2009

seaside said:
Leading companies like samsung, panasonic. LG and sanyo makes quality batteries. But they mostly are unprotected and not commonly available, because their main target market is notebook computer industry.

Other cheap lithium batteries are about the same regardless of the brands. Some people like Trustfire or Tenergy over ultrafire though, we don't exactly know who made them. Anyway, they are usually acceptable at cheap prices.

Except those 4 major players, people belive AW is better than other cheapies in terms of quality. Lot of people here in CPF recommend AW, and I do too.

Protected battery has protection PCB built in the battery, and it cut the charge off when it get over 4.25V or under 2.7V. Thus, protected battery is safer than unprotected one.

There are two versions of WF-139 charger. Not all, but some old versions had overcharging problem. I don't recall any explostion regrading that, but it surely shorten useful life span of batteries. It seems fixed at new version which charges bit slower than old one. Mine does not have any problem so far.

I can't tell you what charger is better than the WF-139, since that's all I have. There must be a better charger out there and hopefully someone can tell you something about it.

So, the best thing is, 1. Get quality protected battery. 2. Get better charger 3. Make sure you took them out when they are fully charged.

Thanks.

So you know who made the AW's, but not the Trustfire's or Tenergy's?

So does the WF-139 Ultrafire "automatically shut off" when the battery is charged? (Even though you should take it out when it's done.)

How long should it take to charge these batteries?

.

HEDP · Mar 3, 2009

SilverFox said:
Hello HEDP,

The reason you can't walk down to the corner store and pick up some loose Li-Ion batteries is that there are some additional dangers associated with them. Most of the dangers occur during charging, so we encourage you to take some extra precautions while charging.

Some of the Li-Ion chemistries can "vent with flame" if the voltage gets too high during charging, or if the cell has been damaged through over discharge and you go to charge it back up. These little cells can have flames that reach over 1500 F, so it is better to charge them on a heat resistant surface.

Protected cells offer another layer of safety, but if you drop your light, it is possible to damage the protection circuit.

This doesn't happen every time, but it is just something to be aware of, and take some precautions against.

I recommend and use the Pila IBC charger, and I also frequently use my Schulze hobby charger. Both of these chargers follow the proper Li-Ion charging algorithm, and the voltage never exceeds 4.20 volts. If your charger charges your cells to a voltage higher than 4.20 volts, you can expect, at a minimum, to wear your cells out quicker. If it charges a lot over 4.20 volts, you can expect a "venting with flame" incident.

Some of the earlier versions of some of these chargers had some issues with overcharging Li-Ion cells. Since then there have been some revisions, and I think they may have taken care of this issue. The other problem has been a lack of consistency between these lower priced chargers. One person will comment that their charger works fine, while the next person will document overcharging.

I perfer to spend a little more for a quality charger, and enjoy the piece of mind of knowing it will take good care of my cells. Others seem to place more value on initial price...

Tom

Tom,

The Pila IBC charger you recommended trickle charges it says, isn't that bad?

It's $45 at this site, can you find it cheaper.

http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php?product=171829

I was thinking about getting the WF-130 Ultrafire charger and AW protected batteries.......but do you think that's a bad idea?

.

SilverFox · Mar 3, 2009

Hello HEDP,

The charging description from Pila is poorly translated.

Li-Ion charging is done using a Constant Current for the first part of the charge, then as the cell reaches 4.20 volts, the charger switches over to a Constant Voltage phase. During this CV phase the current tapers off. Pila calls this part of the charge a trickle charge.

Their original charger only used a Constant Current method of charging, and it would run the voltage up until the protection circuit of the cell terminated the charge. The CC phase is the fast portion of the charge, so they (wrongly) refer to the CV phase as a trickle charge.

AW has been supplying good quality batteries. I still stand by my recommendation of the Pila IBC charger. The price you found seems about right.

Tom

corrections operator · Mar 3, 2009

HEDP said:
Tom,

The Pila IBC charger you recommended trickle charges it says, isn't that bad?

It's $45 at this site, can you find it cheaper.

http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php?product=171829

I was thinking about getting the WF-130 Ultrafire charger and AW protected batteries.......but do you think that's a bad idea?

.

That's about as cheap as you will find it, but from what I understand, it's worth the money. As far as protected 18650s go, there are only three brands I would use. Pila 600P's, Wolf Eyes 168A's, and AW 18650's, in that order, are the best in my eyes. I think you will find Tom and others would agree. Of the three listed, the AW's offer the best bang for the buck.

Look at it this way, you just bought a corvette. Are you going to put 87 octane in it? No! You are going to put the 93 octane in it from a quality source.

Optimal Batteries & Charger for Lumapower Lumahunter MRV SK v1.1 Tactical

HEDP

Enlightened

HEDP

Enlightened

lightforce2

Enlightened

HEDP

Enlightened

HEDP

Enlightened

lightforce2

Enlightened

HEDP

Enlightened

seaside

Enlightened

SilverFox

Flashaholic

HEDP

Enlightened

HEDP

Enlightened

SilverFox

Flashaholic

corrections operator

Newly Enlightened

Similar threads

Latest posts