One thing i dont understand of "flashlight recommendations" people do..

Why can so many people recommend someone to buy a flashlight that has just came for sale.. basically it might have been available for maybe less than a week.

how can one recommend a light that no one has any extended experience with, no reviews made, just without any testing. period.
they dont have no idea how well it actually has been built.. just relying to the old reputation of the manufacturer and what they have seen in the manufacturers brochure.

sometimes those people also recommend a light that is in pre-order or just a design concept and just calmly claim it as competetive (or simply better) to other already well know lights.

last light which i have seen promoted before anyone has one, is the new eagletac p100 series.. i think 1st ones were shipped last week? where is the time to test how good it is? thats the one that feels most "wrongly promoted and offered" at the moment. people put it automatically in same list with lights as known as fenix and nitecore.. i wouldnt dare. i might suggest one as option but wouldnt name it as 1. to take.


-and yes i am also guilty to recommending a light i have no true experience with, but i just trust the things i heard or read etc from others and reviews.
or have experience of other model of light asked and am happy with it i just suppose new one is good too.

i hate this in me. should not do it. try not to do it intentionally anymore.

I usually don't recommend lights that haven't be reviewed a few times. There isn't any evidence that the light will performed as marketed untill reviews and actual use posts.

I fall often into the no actual experience side.

Why? Student + no job = very few flashlights.

So what do I base my recommendations on? Lots of reading of everything from individual LED specs to speculations. I also try to use should instead of could, and also look at comparisons so I know how one light is compared to another and so on. I try to recommend things based on what CPF and other flashlight related forums and sites provide.

I try not to recommend anything I dont already own, or at least have some first hand experience with. Its hard but you have to refrain from falling prey to that practice.... :naughty: I definitely refrain from recommending any product that has a large number of reported failures from other CPF owners.

Yeah, I am guilty of that. I admit I did recommend something that was never been in my possesion.

I usually recommend something that is proven to be reliable like surefire brand, or some cheap goodies because that's what the person asked. Of cause, my recommendation is based on what I knew, read, heard or experienced, and from my desire to help him/her. But that sometimes do not satisfy the person especially when the person did not tell me what truely he/she expect or the person had no idea about what he/she want.

Sometimes I feel like I should stop recommend even if that is my field of expertise... unless I can see through people's mind.

I don't think personal ownership should be a requirement for making a recommendation. We all read of many folk's experiences with lights. In rare cases I remember what I've read, and might not hesitate to relate what I know. I will try to point out that I don't have personal experience, just a little knowledge.

Also, I don't see much of a problem for someone recommending a light based on their own experience, even if it's a new product. Just don't forget to mention the possibility that problems could develop and that it's just your opinion.

Geoff

On the opposite side of the coin, too many people recommend ONLY their favorite light, even though they have not personally compared their setup to alternatives. I'll see one member go from one thread to the next answering "which flashlight" questions, with their personal trophy light over an over again. At that point it's no longer using good judgement and analyzing the persons needs, it's just trying to get more people to make the same decision they made, in order to justify their own decision.

Guess what? I'm not innocent of this type of behavior, I'm well known as a li-ion "expert" around here, and find myself overwhelmingly recommending 18650 powered flashlights for most applications.

What we all need to do to improve the quality of any recommendations, is to step back and question and ridicule anything we ourselves are about to post, and see where the holes are, then, the recommendation can be made in such a way that points out the reason for the recommendation, along with the tradeoffs involved with it.

-Eric

One of the reasons that the P100C2 and A2 are being recommended so much is because they cost less than 90% of the lights people on this site recommend. At $40, they are in closer competition (pricewise) with cheap chinese lights from DX than they are with the more expensive lights in their category. At $40, they are a much better deal than anything else around, so worrying about their quality is not as big of an issue as it would be with an $80 light (not that they aren't good quality). And the only issues that have turned up are slightly of centered emitters in some of the P100A2 models. In my opinion, the current info is enough to recommend them as lights, especially at such low prices.

Mjolnir, you got the point, and that exactly is why I often recommend cheap goodies.

But, the thing what made me think twice about that is... what if, what if that's not what the person wanted? What if we are recommending something based on our idea, rather than his? That happens.

So, here goes my another confession.
When someone asked me like "what's better? flashlight A or B?" I often told him "flashlight C is better than both of them at cheaper price." And I was proud of myself about giving him such practical information. Then later I found out I added another confusion to his already confused mind by adding another choice which origianally was not there. I feel bad when that happens.

I, for one, forgive you guys of all your transgressions. :devil:

In all seriousness, however, much of the responsibility for inadequate advice rests with the OP who fails to identify his needs:
- Realistic price range for what he expects.
- A reasonable assessment of output levels and runtimes needed to meet his applications.
- An accurate description of his intended uses.
- Some idea of the form factor he desires.

... but, then again, if he was smart enough to know all of these things, he'd already be a flashaholic, right?

Flying Turtle said:

I don't think personal ownership should be a requirement for making a recommendation. We all read of many folk's experiences with lights. In rare cases I remember what I've read, and might not hesitate to relate what I know. I will try to point out that I don't have personal experience, just a little knowledge.

Also, I don't see much of a problem for someone recommending a light based on their own experience, even if it's a new product. Just don't forget to mention the possibility that problems could develop and that it's just your opinion.

Geoff

Click to expand...

Well said. :thumbsup:

My recommendations are based on personal experience or other's experiences. I do specify where the recommendation is coming from. For example I'll say "Mine has been very reliable" or I'll say "I have read that others have not had any problems."
Ownership and personal experience never stops people from giving their opinions and people buy on specs all the time. Someone may recommend a certain car that they have only been driving for six months yet that same car may take a year or two to develop problems.

mdocod said:

On the opposite side of the coin, too many people recommend ONLY their favorite light, even though they have not personally compared their setup to alternatives. I'll see one member go from one thread to the next answering "which flashlight" questions, with their personal trophy light over an over again. At that point it's no longer using good judgement and analyzing the persons needs, it's just trying to get more people to make the same decision they made, in order to justify their own decision.

Click to expand...

very good point... something I hadn't thought of.

I really encourage CPFers to attend local meets. I have only been to one, but it was a REAL eye opener. But even then you have to still watch out for your own first impressions... they can be mis-leading. I was almost certain the E2DL was NOT for me. But after playing around with a couple for the evening WOW what a flame thrower, and with the beam diffuser its almost like an M60F.

I've seen more often than not when the original poster states they want so and so light that does this and that. They'll state that they don't plan on spending more than $50. Next thing you know, some people would recommend a McGizmo or Spy007.

I generally don't recommend too many flashlights because what I want to recommend would already be mentioned at least a few times, making my post redundant. I could just do +20, but it doesn't really add much value.

Some good points made on both sides of this debate... on the one hand, I only like recommending a light that I have used before. On the other hand, as suggested by mdocod, this can potentially result in recommending the same light or type of light over and over again.

I think it's the nature of any activity where you have an obsession; if you ask any of your friends - who are NOT flashoholics - what kind of light they would like, I'm sure the answer would be pretty short and straightforward. For many, the thing just has to turn on and work, others might say small size, easy to use, really bright but they would not be as picky as we are.

So, once you begin to understand something in more detail, then you start to segment it into smaller pieces for different situations... 1x123 lights for small size, 1xAA for edc and availability, 1x18650 + P60 for throw and long runtimes, GDP for better colour rendition, etc.

Personally, I like to read the posts about other people's recommendations because it opens my mind as to what is out there as I can't possible know all the new and / or interesting lights. So, it makes for great reading! lovecpf

i hate that over the budget suggesting too..

(it was supposed to me my 1st reply to this thread after someones comment.. a thread that i thought would of been "safer" in cafe.. and thats now thrusted to general stage by someone.. ohwell maybe it belongs here)

so i have a problem with suggestions not kept in budget.

if a person asks a light that costs 50$,

the person is looking of for a light that IS in fact, at or under 50 dollars.. and not much more.

1st one should suggest a lights under budget. best available.

2nd lights at the budget 45-55$ including possible shipping costs.

3rd a light(s) that may go over budget by no more than 25-30%. if you can point its superiority to others mentioned before.

and maybe after that..
4th lights that just shread the budget by 40% or more

and this only if the higher priced lights really do give out significant increase in value and useability to person asking for it. and not just flashholics. (20% increase of lumens is not really that detectable, and the fancy UI is lost in normal user, i would not dare to offer liteflux to my mom as her next flashlight. a gizmoholic friend of mine maybe..)

and one should not ever really suggest a light that doubles it or more, unless the budget limits have been changed.


really good example people of this: people asking 50$ light, nitecore d10 r2 is recommended by many.. but that makes 71 dollars with clip. good light i think it might be but seriously: thats 42% increase of budget!

think about this way. your friend says he is going to buy a new car. his budget is 20 000$ and asks you the "mechanic" your suggestion of a car in that budget. would you just tell him outright to spend 28 000 for a car that has 2 year guarantee instead of 1 year, 10% more power and automatic a/c instead of manual a/c?

i wouldnt dare.

8000 is a lot of money over the budget.

40%.

budget is budget. one should respect it.

At the same token, people who's asking for a recommended light should decrease their budget slightly in anticipation that people would suggest something that's over the budget. So if you're looking for a $50, say $40. There's no doubt that people would push it to $50.

The suggestions can go over budget to within a reasonable percently. But going from $50 to $500 is really pushing it.

I have seen quite a few threads where I have seen people recommending surefires, when they are far outside the OP's budget. If someone wants to spend 60 bucks, then that means they won't be getting an E2L.

sometimes people also want unrealistic things in a cheap light. like they ask for a thrower under 50...what are we supposed to say?

as for the D10 and clip thing..i thinks its perfectly valid..not everyone needs a clip..the op just needs to be made aware of the fact that IF they want it..its extra.

Crenshaw

There are throwers under 50; they just all happen to be XXXXXfire chinese lights or clones (like the spear clone). If someone has a lower budget, than they should expect to make compromises in one area or another.

On the subject of a budget and a list of requirements. Remember, many of the "which flashlight should I buy" threads are started by folks who are new to the whole scene, the budget set is often completely unrealistic for the users needs. The reality is that to get quality in any product, from flashlights, to tools, to gadgets, knives, guns, etc etc etc, it's going to cost some money above and beyond what we have grown to expect by doing our usual every-day shopping at walmart etc. Many consumers have never ventured beyond the "regular" consumer level for many of the things they might own, but every so often, a consumer gets an urge to see what's out there above and beyond. It's a whole new world waiting to be explored and applies to so many markets. Imagine someone in the market for a new stereo, and they decide to seek out the best advice, and go to an audiophile forum and ask for the best surround-sound system under $250. A responsible member of such a forum would say to pick out a "surround-sound-in-a-box" unit by a reputable big name that has the looks and user interface that you like. At the same time, I think it would be an appropriate time to point out "hey, you've come this far, your seeking out the best advice by looking for this forum and taking the time to ask... what about spending a little more and piecing together something that you'll really be proud of and enjoy a lot more?"