Breaking in a new flashlight and batteries

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This is the advice I got to break in new batteries and flashlight:

Please note that the initial charge is very important.

Charge your battery to full level and run out to min. level (protected type) for 5 times.
This can activate the battery to the best condition.

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They are brand new AW 18650's and I am using a Ultrafire Charger and MRV SK v1.1.


However, I have some questions.



1.) Won't doing this wear down my flashlight bulb? (I bought 3 batteries, so this would be 15 cycles.)




2.) Can I just fully charge the batteries (they seem to already be charged somewhat) and then run them down 5 times?




3.) Can I put the fully charged battery in, set the light standing, and then let it run til it turns off......estimate 4 hours? Or would the flashlight overheat?




4.) Does anyone know an easier way to do this?




I don't want to leave the flashlight on all night or when I'm not around. I've got to "condition" these 3 batteries, so it seems it will take a long time.



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Certainly wouldn't advise leaving your light on unattended for any length of time.

I don't know about the Ultrafire, but some chargers have a "refresh" mode that cycles the batteries by repeatedly discharging and then recharging. This is the only way that I would recommend doing this, as the charger will have necessary temperature and discharge / overcharge monitoring built in.

I'm not entirely convinced that this is necessary anyway - sounds like more of a NiMH thing. I would just use your light as usual and break your cells in over a few normal charge/discharge cycles as you use them

Moonshadow said:

Certainly wouldn't advise leaving your light on unattended for any length of time.

I don't know about the Ultrafire, but some chargers have a "refresh" mode that cycles the batteries by repeatedly discharging and then recharging. This is the only way that I would recommend doing this, as the charger will have necessary temperature and discharge / overcharge monitoring built in.

I'm not entirely convinced that this is necessary anyway - sounds like more of a NiMH thing. I would just use your light as usual and break your cells in over a few normal charge/discharge cycles as you use them

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I'm not sure my charger can do that.


This is the one I got.


http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire...3-37-volt-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2279.html


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I just got my new first "real" flashlight, an ITP C9 with C7body as well. I am thinking the same thing you are. My 3.0v protected rcr123 batteries aren't giving me the run time I would have liked and so I'm using the flashlight A LOT to not only cycle the batteries, but to give her a real work-out while the "no questions return" policy of my vendor is still valid. I figure if I work her hard, and she gives out, I'll at least be able to return her for another and then take appropriate precautions.

I'm getting lots of run time out of the single AA batteries, so I know it's not the flashlight being a "battery hog", it's the batteries not delivering on their promise of number of ma.

I found that sitting watching the news and shining the light on high on the ceiling not only gives me a closer idea of run-time, but allows me to pay closer attention to the light during commercials. Also going for night time walks does the same thing. (just remember to bring an extra battery).

I was always under the impression that li-ion cells do not need conditioning. :shrug:

I personally wouldnt worry about it HEDP. From what I have read here on cpf, rechargeable lithium ion batteries dont need to be broken in.

154CM said:

I personally wouldnt worry about it HEDP. From what I have read here on cpf, rechargeable lithium ion batteries dont need to be broken in.

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I'm seeing more of that advice from guys in this post.



However, the guy who told me to do that is a well-respected poster on this site and very knowledgeable.


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Oddjob said:

I was always under the impression that li-ion cells do not need conditioning. :shrug:

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I think you're right. Many people are wrong when they tell you to charge and discharge a cellphone completly before using it. I readed in somewhere that li-ion cells do not benefit from this procedure. In fact, discharging them and overcharging them will shorten their life.

Li-ion chemistry has limited charging cycles, everytime you fully discharge the cell it will complete a cycle, with the time it will lose some capacity, So it is recommended to have your batteries always with some charge and not chargeing them only when drained.

Send a PM to AW for his advice since he knows his own batteries the best.

FlashKat said:

Send a PM to AW for his advice since he knows his own batteries the best.

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Thanks.


I am assuming AW is an employee of the AW company. I didn't know anyone from that company was on this site.

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I just found this website, however, I'm not sure how reliable it is. It is called "batteryuniversity".

http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lithium-ion is a low maintenance battery, an advantage that most other chemistries cannot claim. There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery's life. In addition, the self-discharge is less than half compared to nickel-cadmium, making lithium-ion well suited for modern fuel gauge applications. lithium-ion cells cause little harm when disposed.

Despite its overall advantages, lithium-ion has its drawbacks. It is fragile and requires a protection circuit to maintain safe operation. Built into each pack, the protection circuit limits the peak voltage of each cell during charge and prevents the cell voltage from dropping too low on discharge. In addition, the cell temperature is monitored to prevent temperature extremes. The maximum charge and discharge current on most packs are is limited to between 1C and 2C. With these precautions in place, the possibility of metallic lithium plating occurring due to overcharge is virtually eliminated.

Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications.

Manufacturers are constantly improving lithium-ion. New and enhanced chemical combinations are introduced every six months or so. With such rapid progress, it is difficult to assess how well the revised battery will age.

Storage in a cool place slows the aging process of lithium-ion (and other chemistries). Manufacturers recommend storage temperatures of 15°C (59°F). In addition, the battery should be partially charged during storage. The manufacturer recommends a 40% charge.

The most economical lithium-ion battery in terms of cost-to-energy ratio is the cylindrical 18650 (18 is the diameter and 650 the length in mm). This cell is used for mobile computing and other applications that do not demand ultra-thin geometry. If a slim pack is required, the prismatic lithium-ion cell is the best choice. These cells come at a higher cost in terms of stored energy. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Advantages [/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
  [*] High energy density - potential for yet higher capacities.
  [*] Does not need prolonged priming when new. One regular charge is all that's needed. (Does this mean you do not need to "condition" the battery? You can just charge it once and be fine forever?)
  [*] Relatively low self-discharge - self-discharge is less than half that of nickel-based batteries.
  [*] Low Maintenance - no periodic discharge is needed; there is no memory.
  [*]Specialty cells can provide very high current to applications such as power tools.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Limitations
[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
  [*] Requires protection circuit to maintain voltage and current within safe limits.
  [*] Subject to aging, even if not in use - storage in a cool place at 40% charge reduces the aging effect.
  [*]Transportation restrictions - shipment of larger quantities may be subject to regulatory control. This restriction does not apply to personal carry-on batteries. (See last section)
  [*] Expensive to manufacture - about 40 percent higher in cost than nickel-cadmium.
  [*] Not fully mature - metals and chemicals are changing on a continuing basis.[/FONT]

HEDP said:

I am assuming AW is an employee of the AW company. I didn't know anyone from that company was on this site.

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AW is the one who makes AW batteries, there is no AW company, he makes his own product. I don't think you really need to contact him for such a question, since he doesn't create the Li-Ion chemistry, he just buy the parts and joins everything together.

HEDP said:

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

• Does not need prolonged priming when new. One regular charge is all that's needed.

• [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
  [*]Low Maintenance - no periodic discharge is needed; there is no memory.[/FONT]

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This is what I was talking about, Li-ion doesn't need to be discharged before first use, and no need to do periodic discharge.

richardcpf said:

AW is the one who makes AW batteries, there is no AW company, he makes his own product. I don't think you really need to contact him for such a question, since he doesn't create the Li-Ion chemistry, he just buy the parts and joins everything together.

[/list]
This is what I was talking about, Li-ion doesn't need to be discharged before first use, and no need to do periodic discharge.

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Yeah, that's the consensus on this thread.


I'm surprised the advice from the person I got on here was so different.


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Funny, actually. The instruction on the back of the box for my Tenergy LifePO4 rcr123s say it may take cycles for the batteries to reach maximum capacity. I ran a few cycles, and I think the runtime on the first cycle might have been a tiny bit shorter, but not by much.

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I shot an email to AW yesterday, and afterwards I found out from another poster that AW isn't a company, it's one guy. Oops, too late, already sent a PM.


Well, AW was gracious enough to get back to me in a few hours and here is his reply.

The information you received is wrong. LiIon batteries don't need conditioning. It is not recommended to run them flat. Shallow cycles is best for them and may increase cycle life.

Regards,
AW

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I've got to thank AW for his quick reply, even though he's only one guy and it would be understandable if he didn't reply.

All I can say is AW has great customer service and I'll gladly purchase from him again.

Thanks for all of you who've helped me on this board. I am new to hardcore flashlights and am charging my new AW batteries in my Ultrafire Charger and will be using my new MRV SK v1.1 that you all recommended.

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I have always followed the information below:

Li-Ion - Likes to be kept topped up.
Ni-Mh - Discharge every so often for best performance *
Ni-Ca - Discharge regularly for best performance *

* - This is a moot point if you are using the item regularly anyway

AW said:

The information you received is wrong. LiIon batteries don't need conditioning. It is not recommended to run them flat. Shallow cycles is best for them and may increase cycle life.

Regards,
AW

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I had a Nokia 6255 Cell Phone that I always put onto the charger every night. It never got less than 1/2 full during the day. That battery lasted over 3 1/2 years & was still going strong when the phone decided to jump to it's death onto a tile/concrete floor.

AW is THE MAN! Always superfast response to orders and questions and always quick shipping. And of course the best LI-IONs on Earth! :twothumbs

Breaking in a new flashlight and batteries?

Just use them? :thinking:

Scottiver said:

AW is THE MAN! Always superfast response to orders and questions and always quick shipping. And of course the best LI-IONs on Earth! :twothumbs

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AW and FM-they will always answer questions faster than anyone(not including GENE)!!!!!!:twothumbs