converting SF M6 to LED?

Bushman5

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anyone converted their SF M6 to LED? I would'nt mind all those batteries if I could get say 140 to 200 lumens LED, in a nice ultra cool white color, maybe even in a flood ( yep, i actually said i want a flood) pattern. I assume that an led of said output would let the 6 Cr123's last longer...

anyone? :twothumbs

Note, i would want the stock reflector
 
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gswitter

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Some interesting options.

On a less ambitious scale, you should be able to get the 140-200 lumens you're looking for from an SSC P4 tower module. They come up for sale occasionally, or you can get a bare tower from AW and build one.
 

tx101

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+1 for AWs Turbo Tower kit

SSC P4
SOB1000 board

Your looking at around $90 with shipping

Add a 2x18650 or a 3x17670 cell holder and you will
have a rechargeable M6 :D
 

Bushman5

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Some interesting options.

On a less ambitious scale, you should be able to get the 140-200 lumens you're looking for from an SSC P4 tower module. They come up for sale occasionally, or you can get a bare tower from AW and build one.

i saw that link, looks great but pretty pricy (for me anyways...at this time)

I guess i'm lookng for a 'dropin" style LED conversion, about the only thing i can solder is 00 gauge battery cables for my truck......anything smaller and my ham hands are useless....hahahaha
 

Daekar

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I have a few comparison beamshots to tantalize you with:
First, Control Shot:
Control_Shot.jpg


Next, Surefire P60 on 2xCR123a in G2:
P60.jpg


Then a Malkoff M60 on 2xCR123a in a 6P:
Malkoff_M60.jpg


Then a 450-lumen Lumens Factory bulb driven by 2x18650 (AW) in a Fivemega body with a KT2 turbohead and 3-level PWM tailswitch (I LOVE this setup):
LF_450_Lum_Bulb.jpg


And finally, a Cree MC-E 5A dropin I made, wired in 2S2P and direct-driven by the same batteries and in the same KT2 as above:
MC-E_Dropin.jpg


Is that the flood you're looking for? :D Until an appropriate driver that will output the amperage I want at voltage appropriate for 4P wiring comes along, I'm looking at doing a run of these direct-drive like this one, or using a circuitboard that will run in regulation with CR123a in 3S or more. I'm having trouble tracking down a source of more 5A MC-Es, but other than that I'm all set to go. I have to say the thing generates quite a bit of heat, but it is effectly transferred to the turbohead by the heatsink. Nonetheless, even with a 2x18650 body it's not a light you want to run without holding it. For your M6, if you got a 3x17670 battery adaptor in 3P, I could make you one that runs the dies in parallel. Each battery would probably see around 800mA draw if the LED behaves the same as I have observed. Since you'd have no driver losses, I'd estimate you'd probably get: 1500mAh/800mA = 1.875 hours maximum theoretical runtime... of course, actual runtime would be less thanks to voltage sag with batteries under load. With 2x18650 and 2P2S, there is about 1200mA draw at the tailcap. EDIT: Actually, I just got a line on some K-bin MC-Es in the 4C, 4D, 5A, 5B bins. :)
 
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gswitter

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I guess i'm lookng for a 'dropin" style LED conversion, about the only thing i can solder is 00 gauge battery cables for my truck......anything smaller and my ham hands are useless....hahahaha
ARC mania did runs of the tower modules with Lux V's and SSC P4's. I believe the Lux V's were single-level only, and the SSC P4's were single or multi-level. They're all pretty scarce, but they do show up for sale in the B/S/T occasionally.

I think Milkyspit will build them on request.
 

Justin Case

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The Arcmania SureFire KT TurboHead towers are available in kit form from AW (search for "tower" in the Dealer's Corner in the CPF Marketplace). $44 each including shipping IIRC.

You then have to add your own emitter, 0.55" (14mm) driver board, thermal epoxy, wire, solder, and manpower.

I've built multiple AW towers using an SOB 1000 driver and a Seoul P4 U2-bin LED. At 1000ma drive current, a P4 U2-bin is rated at about 260-285 emitter lumens. IIRC, I get about 13,000 lux at 1 meter, vs about 18,000 lux with an N62 lamp in a SureFire 12ZM T-62 TurboHead. The thing is that the 18,000 lux only lasts for a short time. Then the incandescent lux starts heading steadily downward as things heat up and the batteries get drained rapidly (within minutes). The stock 12ZM is really impractical. In contrast, the LED tower just chugs along in constant current regulation, generating very little heat. I can run the tower using 2x123A primaries, 3x123A, 4x123A, 2xLi-ion, or 3xLi-ion -- basically from about 5V to 16V for full output -- which gives me a lot of flexibility. I can also run with 1xLi-ion and still get a lot of light out of the tower.

I also built an interesting Badboy Nexgen/Seoul P4 tower to run at low voltage (e.g., 2xNiMH). I would estimate about 200 emitter lumens with this setup, which is clearly brighter than if you tried to run an SOB 1000 at 2.4V.

I just completed a tower using an SOB 1000 driving a 2S2P K-bin, WC-tint Cree MC-E. At 500ma drive current per die, the K-bin MC-E is rated at around 500 emitter lumens. I haven't done any extended run tests yet to evaluate heat generation, nor made any measurements of hot spot lux or tailcap current draw. TBD. So far, I've run the MC-E tower using 4x123A, 2xAW16340, and 2xAW17670. Beam pattern in a T-62 TurboHead shows a typical MC-E "cross" at close range (say 6' and under). It is unclear if I have the optimum tower height for the MC-E. With an AW "Seoul focus" tower, you have to raise the MC-E emitter by an estimated 0.94mm. I used an 0.03" ( about 0.76mm) thick copper shim and hoped that the two thermal epoxy layers (tower/shim and shim/MC-E) would make up the rest. I need to get my calipers out to measure the added height. At longer distances, there is some slight "texture" to the hot spot. It is noticeable only in white wall testing. The rest of the beam pattern is excellent. No dark rings. A very bright, smooth spill. The MC-E hot spot is wider but not as bright as the P4 hot spot. The MC-E spill is much brighter. Overall MC-E output is much higher. When I use ceiling bounce illumination in a room roughly 20'x15'x10', it's like I turned on a ceiling light.

I use these towers in an old SureFire 12ZM. Before building these towers, my 12ZM was a shelf queen. Now I actually use it. I also have a P4-based tower in an M900 VFG weaponlight with a KT4 TH.

I have an SOB 1200 on order and plan to see how that works in a tower.

At these power levels for driving an MC-E, I believe you should pot the driver board in the tower. You don't need any fancy thermal management if you use an SOB 1000 to run a Seoul P4.
 
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Justin Case

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Opticshq has a ~ 250 lumen head for around $135 (as seen in picture)

Be aware that the OpticsHQ TX3 TurboHead is a two-stage (high, low) affair. If you like multimode using a serial tailcap press user interface, then this is a great product. If multimode or the UI isn't your cup of tea, then the TX3 probably isn't for you.
 

Bushman5

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no i'm in Canada, and ordering batteries from the USA is illegal. (as per Customs Canada). so its extremely diffucilt to get 18650 or similar exotic batteries.

There is ONE supplier in canada that has just started carrying exotic batteries, that is my only option.
 

LV426

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@ Justin Case
How much do you trim down the MC-E to fit it on the post? Any chance for a picture?

Wish a SSC P7 could fit without having to bore out the reflector...
 

Justin Case

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My calculations estimate that you need to knock off a minimum about 0.4mm at each corner. Basically, if you look at an MC-E, grind off enough so that you start to "erase" the little circles that are molded into the case at each corner.

Don't forget to note which set of MC-E leads are + and which are -. Once you erase the clipped corner by grinding the case, there are just a few subtle indicators for + and -. If you don't know what they are, then you can easily get confused and wire the MC-E incorrectly. I put a little dab of White-Out on the + side.

Also, the outermost leads stick out too far. You need to very carefully bend them down a bit. One trick I've used is to bend the leads slightly -- enough so that the resistance to pushing the tower into the TH isn't excessive. Then I insert the tower into a TH. The TH automatically "sizes" the MC-E for me, bending the outer leads (1+, 4+, 1-, and 4-) just enough for the LED to fit.

You don't want to just jam the MC-E into the reflector hole as-is. I think that the leads stick out too far and might shear off or bend sideways instead of fold down.

The fit is very tight, so your soldering job has to be clean and tidy. Not a lot of extra solder sticking out laterally.

A trick for 2S2P is to push your hookup wire leads from the driver board in-between the pre-tinned MC-E terminals. Then just touch your soldering iron to the work. The solder should flow from the terminals that straddle the wire to your hookup wire, producing a clean, jumpered connection. Don't try to put a big glob of solder on the terminals, trying to bridge them.

The "crossover" wire for the 2S part can fit through the horizontal feed hole at the top of the AW tower. Solder it to the MC-E using the same trick as for the driver board wires. With this trick, you don't have to restrict yourself to 4P with one of these towers.

Sorry, no MC-E pics currently. Digital camera is out of action. I'll post some pics when I get a working camera.
 

jzmtl

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no i'm in Canada, and ordering batteries from the USA is illegal. (as per Customs Canada). so its extremely diffucilt to get 18650 or similar exotic batteries.

There is ONE supplier in canada that has just started carrying exotic batteries, that is my only option.

What? :confused: I've ordered quite a few batteries from u.s. and labeled as such, never had a problem.
 

Bruce B

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anyone converted their SF M6 to LED? I would'nt mind all those batteries if I could get say 140 to 200 lumens LED, in a nice ultra cool white color, maybe even in a flood ( yep, i actually said i want a flood) pattern. I assume that an led of said output would let the 6 Cr123's last longer...

anyone? :twothumbs

Note, i would want the stock reflector

Talk to Gene Malkoff, maybe he can design an LED drop in of some sort to help you out.
 

Bushman5

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What? :confused: I've ordered quite a few batteries from u.s. and labeled as such, never had a problem.

I got nailed by Canada Customs for ""importing prohibited dangerous goods" when i ordered a box of CR123's. Got a fine ($300)but not my batteries.

PTS tactical also doesn't ship batteries to canada for the same reason. Which sucks, they have a rechargeable light i want....
 

jzmtl

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I got nailed by Canada Customs for ""importing prohibited dangerous goods" when i ordered a box of CR123's. Got a fine ($300)but not my batteries.

PTS tactical also doesn't ship batteries to canada for the same reason. Which sucks, they have a rechargeable light i want....

Really? Do you have a link to their regulation that prohibits import of batteries? Consider there isn't any that's made in canada, somebody is importing all those on store shelf. Sure you didn't **** anybody at the customs off lately?
 
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