LS, in moon mode, the same brightness as AAA?

When the Arc LS is in moon mode, is it's output about the same as an Arc AAA with fresh battery? How long will it run in moon mode?

Thanks!

I refer you to the CPF'ers who have done more exhaustive run times tests. I have observed moon mode last on my personal LS for over 6 hours.

Peter

Mine appears very noticeably brighter than my ARC AAA LE when in moon mode. This may be in part to the much whiter beam, as opposed to the bluish tint on the LE. (Which I never noticed to be "blue" until I got the LSH-P.)

I saved the two 123 batteries I've used so far which I retired as soon as they hit moon mode, which is a well defined drop in light output in which one moment its full bright and the next it's dim. With the old duracell, at 2.42 volts (no load, rested) the brightness is about AAA bright w/fresh batt. With the old energizer, at 2.80 volts (no load, rested) it's about half as bright as a AAA. Either way, it won't leave you totally in the dark, but apparently it varies. I haven't tested moon mode duration though.

(Maybe off topic, (battery forum?) but....A question:
I don't understand why the lower voltage one produces more light. Perhaps it had to do with my usage pattern from one battery to the next. Maybe different current values not coinciding with voltage. I know Peter's explanation of moon mode function is that extended use of sun-mode will yield SHORTER moon-mode run time, and vice-versa. But apparently it may also mean DIMMER moon-mode. Any opinions?)

I won't comment on the LS but I think "moon mode" with the AAA is a big misnomer. I never noticed any sharp drop off from regulated output to a dim "moon mode." The lights stays reasonably consistent bright for a few hours and then slowly and steadily, not sharply starts to dim over the course of a couple more hours.

Geepondy,I agree that the Arc-AAA does dim pretty gradually. It is really hard to tell when the so-called moon mode begins.

The new LS's however have a very obvious drop-off to moon mode. I was curious if I would be able to tell when moon mode began and believe me, you can't miss it.

Pat

I agree. The AAA doesn't really have a moon-mode. It's only semi-voltage regulated, whereas the LS is nearly fully current regulated which explains the difference. The AAA is slightly dimmer even after only 30 minutes use when compared to another AAA with fresh batt. and continues as shown by the runtime plot I've seen. I end up replacing the batteries when it gets considerably dimmer (about 1.3 volts no-load, rested) so I end up getting only about 2-3 hours out of a batt.

Personally, I wish the AAA was also fully-reg. because I don't like for the gradual dimming. I would be happy to trade the 5 hours semi. for 2 hours fully-reg. with maybe a 1/2 hour moon-mode.

yup...just before my LSH drops into moon mode, it will start flickering a lot for a few seconds before the brightness drops off very rapidly and obviously /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
geepondy said:
...I think "moon mode" with the AAA is a big misnomer. I never noticed any sharp drop off from regulated output to a dim "moon mode." The lights stays reasonably consistent bright for a few hours and then slowly and steadily, not sharply starts to dim over the course of a couple more hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? I can tell I big difference when my aaa goes into moon mode. It is like the difference between... the sun and the moon.

I found the AAA has a moon mode that's markedly different from sun mode. It's maybe 5% of normal output, where normal (sun) mode may get down to 30% or so. The transition from sun to moon mode may take a few minutes but not longer than that. I found this by running a near-dead cell in an AAA and checking on it every few minutes. Moon mode is just bright enough to read by in a dark room if you hold the light a few inches away from the paper. Sun mode lets you hold the light several feet away.

You will see a greater difference between moon mode and the regulated mode when you are using nimh batteries. These batteries will have a steep drop-off when they are almost completely discharged. Normal alkalines and lithiums don't really have such a steep drop-off.

Since the ARC AAA is actually voltage regulated, you only see a noticeable moon mode transition with nimh batteries (or nicad), since they have a steep voltage drop-off, which is in turn directly reflected in the regulator not being able to boost the voltage enough.

Normal alkalines will give you some 'semi-regulated' light, followed by a more gradual dimming....

Peter wrote a lengthy post about the merits of having a semi-regulated light a while ago.

While it would be cool to have all lights be "fully" regulated for 90% of the time, followed by some low moon light, there are limitations (namely, the batteries).

In larger lights that contain constant current regulators, such as the ARC LS series and the McLux, the regulator will try its best to maintain the same current to the led's, until a certain voltage in (Vin) going to it. After that, it will just act as an efficient step-up and pass through the power to the led....thus giving you a nice, lengthy moon mode.

paulr and BigMac,

Thanks for the correction. I presumed with out testing properly first. I never used or tested the AAA to the point where it gets THAT dim. I HAVE run it to about 50% on a dead remote control battery (<1volt). I dug up a used AAA just now and will let it run awhile to see it.

I just read the "Arc AAA runtime test - outgassing" thread posted by ToddP and I'll remove the o-ring just in case the battery goes POP like his did!

I have a bag full of batteries that nothing else can get any use out of, and those go into my arc (or infinity ultra). They can still go for a while on sun mode with most them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[quote
Are you kidding? I can tell I big difference when my aaa goes into moon mode. It is like the difference between... the sun and the moon.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Arc AAA LE in which I base my statements on is I think approaching two years old now. Although I have spares that remain untouched and I have given many as gifts, I've just never had the need to use another. Perhaps the newer ones behave differently but my light behaves much like mcgyverpete states. This is with alkalines. The word partially regulated truly fits here. It dims but not as much as the typical alkaline drain curve.

Since getting some AAA's and now an LS, I've been going back through older threads and found this one. It seems we only got one partial answer before the thread veered in another direction.

Any other inputs from long-time users? In comparison to the AAA, how bright would you say the LS moon mode is? I'll find out soon enough, but was wondering what to expect.

Arc LS moon mode is somewhat brighter than an Arc AAA with a new battery. Basically you're running a Luxeon LED at 2 volts or so, whatever voltage the LS regulator cuts out at. Arc AAA moon mode is near useless except in an emergency but LS moon mode is still a good functional light. In a dark room you might not realize it's in moon mode until you remember how bright it normally is, and then you change the battery.

The LS's moon mode being a little brighter than an AAA on new batteries is great news. Depending on the situation at hand, that's definitely useful light.

(As a side note, your remarks on the AAA's "moon mode" being so dim encourages me to make doubly sure I bring spare AAA's on an upcoming trip where I've encouraged several of my team members to get AAA's.)

I found that when my Arc AAA drops into moon mode, simply turning it off for a few minutes refreshes the battery enough to bring it back to sun mode for at least 1/2 hour or so. And you can repeat that cycle several times. It's very hard to flat out kill a battery in an Arc AAA. I quit from boredom after 3 or 4 cycles while the light was still working fine.

My unscientific observation is...

OK, I finally ran the new LS into moon mode... I think. It was definitely dimmer than usual, so I think it was in moon mode... My guess would be it's twice as bright as an AAA with a new battery. (Mostly due to the brighter hotspot.)

Re: My unscientific observation is...

I ran my Rev1 Arc SLS in what turned out to be moon mode on a single DynaCharge 1800 MAH NiMH AA for 4 hours and 25 minutes!!! Then it rapidly dimmed. I put a fully charged NiMH (same brand and rating) in, and it was much brighter. Still not as bright as 2AA, but, even moon mode in 1AA config is brighter then my CMG Ultra.