Can I invent a variant of something that already exists?

Hey all, question if we have any entrepunuers out there...

...I have an idea for something I'd like to market. The problem is it's a pretty simple idea, and there's already a very similar item on the market.

Now the thing I want to market is a smaller, more portable, and much cheaper version of what is already out there...but the concept is simple enough that I don't know that I could alter it much from what they're doing, other than making it smaller and packaging it differently.

But it's just complicated enough that it's the kind of thing that could be patented.


Any clues where to start?

Sounds like you want to patent a upgrade or improvement to a product that already exists which is possible but sadly I don't know where to go from there but I do suggest patenting your ideas before you share them around. Sounds like you need to do some research in the patent office, hopefully there is a good and extensive database.

Actually, there is a documentary out about the inventor of the intermittent windshield wiper discovery that was stolen by Ford Motor Company and the movie details the inventors fight to reclaim his invention.

Good Luck

The first step is to get a copy of the patent you are worried about infringing. The important part is the claims section. You need to see whether your device will infringe on any of the claims in the patent. Whether your device infringes will really depend on the specificity of the claims in the existing patent.

For example, if it says "rechargable NiCd power source" and you've used NiMH batteries, then you won't literally infringe. But if it says "rechargable power source" then you will literally infringe, because that is a broader claim covering all types of rechargable power sources.

Even if your device doesn't literally infringe on any of the claims, you still must show that your device isn't obvious in light of published sources, including the existing patent. So if the patent says "rechargable NiCd power source," and there are published documents in existence stating that NiMH batteries are a good replacement for NiCd batteries, then your similar device using NiMH batteries will not infringe on the other patent. However, it will not be patentable because it is obvious in light of existing published knowledge.

Of course, patent law is an extremely intricate topic and this is only a crude overview of a couple aspects. Feel free to ask if you have more questions, but keep in mind that I've only taken a single course on patent law...

** although I am a law student, nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice **

saabgoblin said:

Actually, there is a documentary out about the inventor of the intermittent windshield wiper discovery that was stolen by Ford Motor Company and the movie details the inventors fight to reclaim his invention.

Good Luck

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Flash of Genius. As an Engineer (to be) I thought it was a great movie. My friend (also an Engineer to be) didn't like it as much. I don't want to spoil the plot, so I won't say any more.

Yeah I don't really care if what I do is patentable, it's just a small enough market that I don't think I'd have people swooping in left and right to steal my idea. I guess what I really need to do is find out if the similar but existing product is patented and such.

Saaby said:

Yeah I don't really care if what I do is patentable, it's just a small enough market that I don't think I'd have people swooping in left and right to steal my idea. I guess what I really need to do is find out if the similar but existing product is patented and such.

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If it's a small enough market the company holding the existing patent may not even care. They generally only send in the lawyers when someone is making big money copying their ideas. Of course, it costs nothing to see if the existing product is already patented and it gives you piece of mind. Surprisingly few things are patented once you check into them. Either the inventor didn't feel it was worthwhile as the market was too small, or perhaps thought it was such an obvious idea as to be non-patentable.

I've already been down this road. I even paid one of those invention places $5000 back when I was a lot younger and more naive in order to try to get my idea into production. Biggest waste of money ever. After seeing what they did pushing my product, which actually wasn't much, I could do better now. And I realized a long time ago that if you have a good idea you might as well get into the manufacturing and selling part of it as well. It's hard to convince an established company to make and sell your product while giving you a cut of the profits. Chances are they won't do as good a job as you at designing or making the product as to them it's just another item. They'll cut corners and otherwise sell an almost unrecognizable version of what you had in mind. And of course they'll try to steal your idea from you. Even with a patent, better be prepared to pay an army of lawyers if they do. It's a shame there aren't reputable "invention" companies who will patent your product for free and push it in exchange for some future share of the profits. The one I worked with still wanted a cut of the profits, but also charged an upfront fee. Never again. And BTW, not counting the prototypes I made for my own use, my idea is still sitting in my file cabinet, waiting until I have the time to push it into production myself. As for how I'll sell it, it'll most likely be eBay or word of mouth. Like what you invented, it's a pretty niche market although it does have the potential to be somewhat larger.

Yeah I wish I could say more, but it's obvious why I can't

I have a few of these ideas I'm sitting on actually. There is a contest run here yearly...I almost entered this year, but you have to pay a (small) entry fee, which gives you access to workshops. The workshops were already over, and I figured if I was going to enter, I may as well get into the workshops too.

Anyway thanks for the info.

I can understand why they want an up-front fee...a lot of ideas the inventor thinks are good just...aren't. If they didn't charge at least a modest fee up front they could really loose their shorts. I agree that most things like that are a better deal for the company pushing the invention than the inventor, however.

Is there a half-decent place to learn more about this kind of stuff? Like I said, I have at least 2 or 3 pretty good ideas that I'd like to try my hand at making a business out of. The more I can outsource the better...I'd want these ideas to make me money (Well also I think they're good ideas and people would benefit from them). I don't want my life to become consumed trying to run a business, to sell my products. (Of course the popular thing to do these days is grow from small to medium and then sell off anyway, right?)

hi guys,

I work at a Dow 30 company, and have seen the company's interest in patents wax and wane. It seemed like our biggest use of patents was to keep competitors from using similar designs, and similarly, to keep them from patenting the same idea and thereby keeping us from using that sort of design.

Patents are fine for protecting your ideas, but it's hard to say how valuable this is for small inventors. My impression was that the biggest hurdle for a small inventor isn't protecting the idea, but getting it into production and successfully marketing it.

For starters, I doubt that an individual will have any luck selling their idea to a large corporation. Their needs are pretty specific. For instance, if my employer has a need for a particular device, we may design it ourselves, or go to a company that currently designs this sort of device. We usually have unique needs, so either a new design is required, or a standard part is modified.

My impression has been that a small inventor's best bet is to do what many folks here at CPF do... get subassemblies made, put together the product, and handle the marketing and sales yourself. This is a lot easier with electronics, where there are so many board houses who will assemble boards for you. The internet has also made it a lot easier to identify a group of potential customers, and market to them.

The downside of this is that it's not very efficient, and I don't see anyone making much money this way. There's a lot to be said for the efficiencies of a small company where everyone can have a specific skill and excel at it. There's also a lot to be said for being higher up in the food chain... the money is definitely better when you are doing the system design and selling a big piece of equipment than when you are designing some of the small components.

Patents are an interesting subject, and I'd be interested in hearing from folks who have succeeded at being an independent inventor. Are patents worth the trouble? Are the inventions the important part, or is the marketing the key (ala Ron Popeil)?

regards,

Steve K.

Yes, you can invent a variant as long as it does not infringe on any other patents and it is not obvious or prior art. I work for a Fortune 500 company and we take patents and IP very seriously. You need to do a thorough search using a patent database before you can really begin. You will also need sufficient knowledge in published literature.

I am also a reviewer for the National Science Foundation's SBIR program. If you don't know about the SBIR program, I would highly recommend you check it out. It's a good way to offset some of the startup expense of a small company. Different agencies use different criteria for selection. I can give you advice on the NSF's criteria, but I am not very familiar with DOD's or other agencies.

One thing you should do right away is some form of design on paper and mail it via registered mail (I think that's the type of mail) to yourself, so it is sealed and dated by the post office, and leave it sealed-don't open it. It could serve as proof in court as to the date of origination of your product.

Hey Saaby are you in college now? Most colleges that have an engineering program also have a patenting team. Your college would usually be thrilled to help you out with your idea. There are probably also grants that the college has lying around that are designed to help students get patents. They like to be able to say they're actually putting those to good use.

This isn't to say that the college's legal team will be helping you for free, but it's a good place to start & find out what your options are.

Ask at the Dean or President's office level and they'll point you to the campus resources.

Biky...I am at college.

Great idea. Next fall I'll even be in a position to work closely with the Dean, so I'll have to investigate it.