defective Chameleon ?? Any help is appreciated!

Hi there :thumbsup:

A while ago I bought a chameleon from Cyril (flashlight), one with a slim head as well as a slim body and completly polished. I actually didnt use the light. Just tested it upon arrival and it worked fine so far. I didn´t perform any runtime tests and didn´t see any reason for it since it worked pretty normal the time I tested it and played with it. After that it went into an acrylic showcase to be admired.

A few days ago sold this light to a fellow messerforum.net member (german knife forum) and unfortunatelly he has some serious problems with it. I shipped the light set to the 1250ma table. He told me the light wouldn´t run any longer than 10 minutes on the highest level on the 1250ma table. And a day later the light would shut off after just a minute - same behaviour with 4 different rechargeables, all new. With new panasonic CR123A cells it won´t go further than level 3 and woulnd´t run very long either. Personally I´m not that good with the technical side of our addiction, so I decided to start the thread to hopefully get some help with the issues.

Maybe the buyer will chime in to post some more details about the misbehaviour of that little chammie.

EDIT: I found Cyril´s sales thread. It could be a LionCub V1 board installed in the control module. Is there any way to determine the exact board in the CM? I´ve got both instruction sheet for the LionCub/Heart V2 as well as the Chameleon. But I don´t know the LC V1 board. What´s the difference to the V2 and the Chameleon board?

Here the light I sold:






and the last beamshot I made before I wrapped the light:



Eric

All the Chameleons had the high table (level) at the 1250ma and do what you said. Mine ran the same way with a RCR123. I think I got about 3 minutes. To run a RCR123 you should set it to a lower table to get more run time.

The way to get around this is use a larger battery tube. I purchased a 18650 battery tube so I could get a longer run time at 1250ma.

You have to use AW's Rcr-123 to run the Chameleon, other Rcr-123 can run only a few seconds.
If you used AW's Rcr-123 and still have only a few seconds of runtimes, then you'll need the ground ring.

"With new panasonic CR123A cells it won´t go further than level 3 and woulnd´t run very long either "

If I am not mistaken this light is made to run on rechargeable R123 and in a pinch you can use the CR123 primary at reduced brightness / runtime.

I think that you can go as high as the 1000ma table on most R123 batteries. This is what I use with my AW batteries and have no problems.

Thanks for the reply guys. From what I´ve read at the link Cyril provided in his sales thread, the light ist not a chameleon but probably has a LionCUb V2 board. Having that said, I have to have the buyer test it out since I don´t have the light on hand anymore. And I don´t know how much mA the LionCub draws at the highest level?

Another reply I got at another forum pointed out that protected rechargeables might be a problem with this light (probably V2 borad). I don´te really use my custom lights so I am not quite sure if that´s the case and since I don´t have the light anymore I can´t test it with unprotected cells. The only custom light I used for a while was a Cub, 2-3 years ago. But i can´t remember if I used protected or unprotected cells. Though I´ll give my last remaining Cub a testrun this weekend.

@glockoby: What exactly did you mean by "then you´ll need the groundring."?

Eric

there are a few factors at work here.

1. Mr Bulk's "lion" (chamelion, lioncub, lionheart) lights are all supposed to run on lithium ion (li-on batteries), which mean rechargeable lithiums. it's not surprising his light would not run on a new panasonic CR123 as it's not rechargeable (and is not 3.7/4.2v).

2. i don't know about the polished version but the bead blasted did not have enough contact between the body and the head, so a gold ring was provided to add grounding. not sure if this applies to your version.

3. if it's driven at 1250mA, the highest level, then you shouldn't expect more than a few seconds/minutes runtime at the highest level with a regular RCR123. my chameleons won't last past 10-30 seconds, dependign on the condition of the battery. that is an overdrive level, and that's about average for that level with a RCR123 size battery. if he got a larger battery tube, and put 18650s in it or something, you will get better runtime, but that still won't necessarily prevent it from shutting down as it's an overdrive level.

If it a LionCUb V2 board, it will work with any Rcr-123 because it direct drive, if it's a Chameleon board, then you'll need a ground-ring, a ring between board and the battery tube so the ground is more solid to run at 1200mah.

Found this posting by Charlie in my Chameleon notes, re the 1250mA table:

"UPDATE 1-27-06:

George and I just exchanged several e-mails regarding the use of CT5, and the gist of it was that George does NOT feel comfortable with the use of CT5, specifically with regard to running it full blast ( as in "run time tests") regardless whether batteries are found/conditioned/utilized that can support it.

This is because as I stated previously, certain components on the board were not designed to be driven that hard (CT5)."

He goes on to discuss the cost (to the user) of repairing the board if it is damaged by extended runs on the highest table.

Personally, my experience with the Chameleon has been the same as ernsanada's -- the 18650 tube (and perhaps the 18500 tube -- I haven't tried one) is the only way to get the highest output for more than a few seconds.

Hi Eric, The Chameleon, LionCub, LionHeart and DragonHeart all rely on the threaded area between the Control Module and the tail for grounding. Over time, oxidation can build up in the threads and prevent a strong ground path. Try a thourough cleaning of the threads and it may solve the problem. The same or similar situation exists with the ground wire coming from the star and being trapped against the Control module by the roll pin. In addition to the oxidation issue there is also galvanic corrosion caused by three different metals. Wire, roll pin and Control module. Remove the roll pin and clean up all three and reinstall. I'm guessing one or both of these situations are causing a poor ground and when cleaned the light will be stronger and will work longer.

As Somy Nex and others pointed out, The light is designed to run on 3.7V RCR123's.

First I've heard of the gold ring. Can anyone provide more information about them?

shuter said:

First I've heard of the gold ring. Can anyone provide more information about them?

Click to expand...

Do a search at FF on "ground ring".

This is the ground ring.



I had to send my Chameleon back to MR Bulk for repair. I used one of the those magnets to make contact with the board. My light fell on it's side on my computer desk and it caused the board to be fried. MR Bulk installed the grounding ring for me at the same time.

I also built up the solder blob to help make contact with the +ve anode of the flat top rechargeabe lithiums.


This this the Chameleon with the RCR123 battery tube.



Chameleon with the 150 battery tube.



Chameleon with the 18650 battery tube.

ernsanada - Thanks for the great pictures. The ring shows clearly. If I understand this, the tail now buts up against the gold ring instead of butting up against the control module? It appears that there is now a small gap between the control module (center section) and the tail. I'm wondering how the ground path is changed? Is the ground wire from the star soldered directly to the gold ring somehow?

Nice solder job on the contact blob BTW. Looks machine made.


JeffN - I'm off to FF to do that search. Thanks!

The ring can be taken out if needed. The tension of the coil holds it in.

Charlie said that it's very easy to do a solder blob. He said it would flow very easy and he was right. I just added a little solder at a time and built to the height I wanted.

I have two Chameleons's and one DragonHeart, all use LiIon's. With the stock Chameleon with Lux III I was able to get 15 minutes runtime on CT5 but only using unprotected Powerizer RCR123's. The Chameleon and DragonHeart (same board as Chameleon) have discharge protection built in for LiIon. I have had modded the two Chamelons, one with a Cree Q5, and the other a Seoul P4. The DragonHeart came with the Seoul P4. The Chameleons are usually run with unprotected 18650's and the DragonHeart with unprotected 18490's. I only use CT5 for a few minutes. The Chameleon's are excellent lights with great UI, and I would never ever sell them.

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

I have two Chameleons's and one DragonHeart, all use LiIon's. With the stock Chameleon with Lux III I was able to get 15 minutes runtime on CT5 but only using unprotected Powerizer RCR123's. The Chameleon and DragonHeart (same board as Chameleon) have discharge protection built in for LiIon. I have had modded the two Chamelons, one with a Cree Q5, and the other a Seoul P4. The DragonHeart came with the Seoul P4. The Chameleons are usually run with unprotected 18650's and the DragonHeart with unprotected 18490's. I only use CT5 for a few minutes. The Chameleon's are excellent lights with great UI, and I would never ever sell them.

Bill

Click to expand...

Hi Bill - Would it make any difference in run time if you used Protected cells instead of unprotected? If yes, could you explain?

What does CT5 stand for? Is it the standard 5th level (brightest) of the five levels or does the board have to be specially programmed to achieve that level?

Gale

ernsanada - I like the looks of the bead blasted 150 battery tube. Did someone sell those or did you have it made?

I think I bought some of the battery tubes from Lighthound when the Chamelon first came out. They are all gone.

There also was a sales thread from Otokoyama who was selling some of I think were the 18650 sized tubes. They are also all gone.

This was about 4 years ago.

shuter said:

Hi Bill - Would it make any difference in run time if you used Protected cells instead of unprotected? If yes, could you explain?

What does CT5 stand for? Is it the standard 5th level (brightest) of the five levels or does the board have to be specially programmed to achieve that level?

Gale

Click to expand...

Unprotected Powerizer's have about the best runtime, under a fairly high discharged rate, of the RCR123's. See this thread by Silverfox where he tested LiIon's including some RCR123's. The Powerizer's tested had, prior to his testing, been run hard and still were excellent performers https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/67078

Protected RCR123's do not have as much capacity, underload, as unprotected, usually. CT5 is the highest level of the 5 available for the Chameleon and is the standard CT5 level.


Bill

:wave: Thanks for the response Bill. I appreciate it..... I love this place.

Hi Eric :wave: Did you get the Chameleon issue worked out? Tell us what happened!