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Thread: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* datiLED's Avatar
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    Default Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Does anyone know anything about these warm white LED's that I have seen on e-Bay? The 5mm variety look decent if the specifications are accurate. The 3mm output is too low to mess with, and the 8mm require 100mA.

    Warm White 13,000 mcd LEDs
    Specifications:
    Size (mm) : 5mm
    Lens Color : Water Clear
    Reverse Current (uA) : <=30
    Life Rating : 100,000 Hours
    Viewing Angle : 20 ~ 25 Degree (180 Degrees wide angle)
    Absolute Maximum Ratings (Ta=25C)
    Max Power Dissipation : 80mw
    Max Continuous Forward Current : 24mA
    Max Peak Forward Current : 75mA
    Reverse Voltage : 5~6V
    Lead Soldering Temperature : 240C (<5Sec)
    Operating Temperature Range : -25C ~ +85C
    Preservative Temperature Range : -30C ~ +100C


    Warm white 5mm LED (20-25 degree).

    Warm white 5mm flat top LED (140-180 degree).

    I was just wondering if anyone has tried these, and whether the tint is acceptable and if the beam is somewhat even.
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    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    I have tested several 5mm cool white LEDs for lumen depreciation from several ebay sellers and all have failed the test as they faded after driving them for 192 hrs at 30ma. I have found warm white LEDs to be even worse although I have not tested them from ebay sellers. These were taken from Xmas light strings that the LEDs were likely from China suppliers.

    The ones that didn't fade (from ebay sellers) were the white and warm white flux leds from "light of victory" led store. I have not tested the flux leds from JELEDs yet.

    Interestingly, the best 3mm ww leds I tested were from GE xmas light string purchased in 07 (better than many 5mm ww). The 08 version went with cheaper leds which faded faster and had an ugly yellowish cast. So much for progress.
    Last edited by JohnR66; 05-01-2009 at 07:26 AM.

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    Flashaholic* datiLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Thanks for the information. I have used the JELED LED's, and while they are prone to artifacts, perform quite well for the money.

    I purchased some of the warm white LEDs that I linked to in my original post, and plan on using them in a fixed lighting project (music stand light for my wife). They will be driven at 20mA (or less), so they should not degrade too quickly.
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    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    For longevity, I recommend driving them at no more than 10ma. The ones driven at 192h (8 days) 30ma still faded when driven for 4 weeks at 15ma.

    A very nice LED is the Radio Shack 276-0017. It is a 30 Deg beam LED that has a nice 4200 kelvin color temp that is neither too warm or cool. It didn't fade in the slightest in my tests. They are $2 for a pack of two but worth it. The lead frame design suggests that it is not made by either Cree or Nichia. I would love to find out who makes them and where I can get them in bulk. They are one of my favorite 5mm LEDs.

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    Flashaholic* datiLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    [quote=JohnR66;2939750]For longevity, I recommend driving them at no more than 10ma. The ones driven at 192h (8 days) 30ma still faded when driven for 4 weeks at 15ma.

    Do you heatsink your LED's when testing them? I typically solder the leads to a large copper area for heat dissipation. Even when driving an LED at it's rated current, I like to ensure that any heat is sinked away from the LED.

    I modified an Inova X5 using overdriven Nichia GS LED's (I replaced the 36 Ohm resistors with 33 Ohm). After 15 minutes of use, it gets warm. It is probably killing the LED's, but it is bright!
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    Flashaholic* Bimmerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    The ones that didn't fade (from ebay sellers) were the white and warm white flux leds from "light of victory" led store.
    I've been very interested in the L.O.V. warm white flux LED's since first seeing you mention them some time back, and you just reminded me of them. Just to make sure I'm looking at the correct ones, do you mean these? 5mm WARM WHITE FLUX LED

    How is the color temperature? Do they appear as "golden" as they do in the picture? If so, I think they'd be perfect for an upcoming project where I'm hoping for as gold of a tint as possible without using amber LED's, which are probably too orange.

    BTW, thanks for all the destructive testing you've done on these things. 5mm LED's are obviously still widely used, and you've provided lots of great info!
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  7. #7
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    [quote=datiLED;2942287]
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    For longevity, I recommend driving them at no more than 10ma. The ones driven at 192h (8 days) 30ma still faded when driven for 4 weeks at 15ma.

    Do you heatsink your LED's when testing them? I typically solder the leads to a large copper area for heat dissipation. Even when driving an LED at it's rated current, I like to ensure that any heat is sinked away from the LED.

    I modified an Inova X5 using overdriven Nichia GS LED's (I replaced the 36 Ohm resistors with 33 Ohm). After 15 minutes of use, it gets warm. It is probably killing the LED's, but it is bright!
    They heatsink into the contacts of the breadboard. Not perfect, but I can feel the heat on the bottom of the board, so it is drawing some heat away. At 15ma there is not much heat. It seems to be a phosphor quality and/or epoxy encapsulation issue. Quality LEDs, like Cree and Nichia claim to use a higher grade epoxy encapsulant that does not darken over the die as much.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerboy View Post
    I've been very interested in the L.O.V. warm white flux LED's since first seeing you mention them some time back, and you just reminded me of them. Just to make sure I'm looking at the correct ones, do you mean these? 5mm WARM WHITE FLUX LED

    How is the color temperature? Do they appear as "golden" as they do in the picture? If so, I think they'd be perfect for an upcoming project where I'm hoping for as gold of a tint as possible without using amber LED's, which are probably too orange.

    BTW, thanks for all the destructive testing you've done on these things. 5mm LED's are obviously still widely used, and you've provided lots of great info!
    Those look correct. The picture looks like a yellow LED to me. These are perhaps 2700 Kelvin with extra yellow in the spectrum. If you PM me your address I can mail you a couple so you can see if they fit your application.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* datiLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    I saw those LED's at RS when I picked up a battery holder, but didn't think much of them. I didn't think about your comment until later, or I would have grabbed a pack.

    I think that I may take a chance and pick up some LOV LED's to experiment with. The four leads should be pretty good at sinking the heat away, and they would probably seat evenly. I am building a few fixed lights with these, and wanted the warm white to be easier on the eyes.

    Thanks again for the excellent information. I may not have considered the flux LED's without reading your posts.
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    Flashaholic* Bimmerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    These are perhaps 2700 Kelvin with extra yellow in the spectrum.
    Ooooo! This is sounding good.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    If you PM me your address I can mail you a couple so you can see if they fit your application.
    Now THAT's cool. Very nice of you, John, and the gesture is much appreciated. I'll send a PM in a few minutes.

    I think it should be mentioned that this is the third time in a little over a year that a fellow CPF member has offered to send me some LED samples, which not only have been instrumental in purchasing decisions, but also makes one feels that he's amongst friends. Lot's of nice people around here. For me, these are but a couple of the many things that make this forum, STILL, after four and a half years, my favorite place on the web!

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  11. #11
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerboy View Post
    Ooooo! This is sounding good.



    Now THAT's cool. Very nice of you, John, and the gesture is much appreciated. I'll send a PM in a few minutes.

    I think it should be mentioned that this is the third time in a little over a year that a fellow CPF member has offered to send me some LED samples, which not only have been instrumental in purchasing decisions, but also makes one feels that he's amongst friends. Lot's of nice people around here. For me, these are but a couple of the many things that make this forum, STILL, after four and a half years, my favorite place on the web!

    Thanks! I had a couple CPFers send me some LEDs so I could test them. So why not spread the joy?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Has anyone tried the Nichia warm 5mm led's?

    such as the nspl500s
    Last edited by dd61999; 05-05-2009 at 09:19 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    For longevity, I recommend driving them at no more than 10ma. The ones driven at 192h (8 days) 30ma still faded when driven for 4 weeks at 15ma.

    A very nice LED is the Radio Shack 276-0017. It is a 30 Deg beam LED that has a nice 4200 kelvin color temp that is neither too warm or cool. It didn't fade in the slightest in my tests. They are $2 for a pack of two but worth it. The lead frame design suggests that it is not made by either Cree or Nichia. I would love to find out who makes them and where I can get them in bulk. They are one of my favorite 5mm LEDs.
    I don't know if these are the same but at 36 cents apiece its worth a try.
    http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...ZsrrsHdVtGE%3d

    Data sheet: http://www.vcclite.com/Customized/Up...VAOL-5GWY4.pdf

  14. #14

    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    I received a few warm white nichia 5mm led. They seem nice but have a very very faint blue hot spot. I will have to test them out at night to really see how they perform

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    Flashaholic* Bimmerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    John - The LOV warms arrived this past Monday, along with the pleasant surprise of a couple warm 3mm's. Thank you!

    I finally dug out a couple 2016's to give the LED's a quick test, and the LOV's are absolutely perfect! Warmer than the 25W incandescent desk lamp I'm typing by right now, they give off just about exactly the tint I was hoping for... a nice "golden" character, without being just simply yellow. I'll be ordering from their eBay shop very soon.

    I can't thank you enough for leading me to these LED's. I can finally start building the mod I've had stuck in my mind's eye for two years!

    As for the 3mm's, what make are they (just for curiosity's sake)? They're quite nice as well, and sound like they match dd61999's description of the Nichia warm. I'd like to find a use for them as well.

    You really made my flashaholic week, man!
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    Flashaholic* milkyspit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    For longevity, I recommend driving them at no more than 10ma. The ones driven at 192h (8 days) 30ma still faded when driven for 4 weeks at 15ma.

    A very nice LED is the Radio Shack 276-0017. It is a 30 Deg beam LED that has a nice 4200 kelvin color temp that is neither too warm or cool. It didn't fade in the slightest in my tests. They are $2 for a pack of two but worth it. The lead frame design suggests that it is not made by either Cree or Nichia. I would love to find out who makes them and where I can get them in bulk. They are one of my favorite 5mm LEDs.

    John, slight typo on the part number... looks like that Radio Shack LED is part 276-017 (one less zero)... RS product page for that item is over here.
    --Scott

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    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerboy View Post
    John - The LOV warms arrived this past Monday, along with the pleasant surprise of a couple warm 3mm's. Thank you!

    I finally dug out a couple 2016's to give the LED's a quick test, and the LOV's are absolutely perfect! Warmer than the 25W incandescent desk lamp I'm typing by right now, they give off just about exactly the tint I was hoping for... a nice "golden" character, without being just simply yellow. I'll be ordering from their eBay shop very soon.

    I can't thank you enough for leading me to these LED's. I can finally start building the mod I've had stuck in my mind's eye for two years!

    As for the 3mm's, what make are they (just for curiosity's sake)? They're quite nice as well, and sound like they match dd61999's description of the Nichia warm. I'd like to find a use for them as well.

    You really made my flashaholic week, man!
    Nice to hear they will work out. The 3mm, I hacked from a GE Xmas light string. They are nothing special. They should work fine if you don't drive them beyond 10ma for extended periods. Just something to tinker with.

    I have plenty. You should see my LED collection. I have have three multi celled plastic cases with LEDs filling many of the cells.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by milkyspit View Post
    John, slight typo on the part number... looks like that Radio Shack LED is part 276-017 (one less zero)... RS product page for that item is over here.
    Hmm, they do have only one zero on the site, but the package has 0017 on my lot. Guess Rat Shack made a typo.

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    Flashaholic* cryhavok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Are there any shots/comparisons of a Nichia GS vs Radioshack LED? I've tried searching the forums but I can't seem to find a comparison shot. How much do the tint's/brightness differ?

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by cryhavok View Post
    Are there any shots/comparisons of a Nichia GS vs Radioshack LED? I've tried searching the forums but I can't seem to find a comparison shot. How much do the tint's/brightness differ?
    I can post shots if you really want to see, but these LEDs are for different purposes. The GS has a narrow beam, cool white with bluish center. The RS LED has a more neutral white 30 deg flood beam. It is better suited for fixed lighting projects where low power/lumnes are needed. Of course the GS is far brighter.

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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Thanks for the reply. I wish I had single Nichia GS just to see how these LEDs are for myself.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Thanks for the great tip about the Radio Shack 276-0017! For fun, I soldered one in series with a 2.2K resistor to a 2-AA battery holder. With 2 fresh alkalines it draws 0.3 ma and is at least as bright as a Quark in moon mode, or an HDS in low mode. The 30 degree beam is perfect. You can definitely read a phone book with it in a pinch in a power fail situation.

    Unfortunately as the voltage drops it is going to have a severe effect long before the batteries get fully discharged, because the Vf at this current is 2.52 V and will be quickly approached, but even so it should run for several months before it becomes too dim. So for very low $ it is possible to far outperform the fancy lights at a super low night light setting.

    Two L91 lithiums would much better results, because their voltage holds up much better as they discharge. Betcha could get 8-9 months usable.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* milkyspit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by fnj View Post
    Thanks for the great tip about the Radio Shack 276-0017! For fun, I soldered one in series with a 2.2K resistor to a 2-AA battery holder. With 2 fresh alkalines it draws 0.3 ma and is at least as bright as a Quark in moon mode, or an HDS in low mode. The 30 degree beam is perfect. You can definitely read a phone book with it in a pinch in a power fail situation.

    Unfortunately as the voltage drops it is going to have a severe effect long before the batteries get fully discharged, because the Vf at this current is 2.52 V and will be quickly approached, but even so it should run for several months before it becomes too dim. So for very low $ it is possible to far outperform the fancy lights at a super low night light setting.

    Two L91 lithiums would much better results, because their voltage holds up much better as they discharge. Betcha could get 8-9 months usable.

    How is the actual tint of the LED... would you classify it as a warm white? Any green in the beam? Yellow? Blue? Is the output uniform in color, or splotchy/ringy like the typical 5mm white Nichia LED? Inquiring minds want to know.
    --Scott

  24. #24
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by milkyspit View Post
    How is the actual tint of the LED... would you classify it as a warm white? Any green in the beam? Yellow? Blue? Is the output uniform in color, or splotchy/ringy like the typical 5mm white Nichia LED?
    I've been using this exact Radio Shack LED in a SF P60 on 1xCR123 & 2xAA (alkaline only, 2x NiMH don't have enough voltage) for a while now, and I'm very pleased with it. I wouldn't say it's warm, but it's warmer than any other "white" 5mm I've seen. No greens or blues, and very uniform - not splotchy/ringy at all. (I've got a few older ARC-AAA's (w/ older Nichia's, right?) and this LED totally blows them away with regards to tint and beam quality.) $2 for 2 of them at 'Electron Hut', some might call that expensive but I think they are worth it.
    Last edited by Kestrel; 09-03-2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Added link

  25. #25

    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    if you want good warm leds forget 5mm, get yourself 3chip smd 5050 leds, i used many of them in my builds, i like them a lot, keep in mind thou, they are 120* pure flood, no hot spot.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* Phaserburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I've been using this exact Radio Shack LED in a SF P60 on 1xCR123 & 2xAA (alkaline only, 2x NiMH don't have enough voltage) for a while now, and I'm very pleased with it. I wouldn't say it's warm, but it's warmer than any other "white" 5mm I've seen. No greens or blues, and very uniform - not splotchy/ringy at all. (I've got a few older ARC-AAA's (w/ older Nichia's, right?) and this LED totally blows them away with regards to tint and beam quality.) $2 for 2 of them, some might call that expensive but I think they are worth it.
    I like these, too. And according to tests, they hold up very well over prolonged drive at, I believe, 30ma.
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  27. #27
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by milkyspit View Post
    How is the actual tint of the LED... would you classify it as a warm white? Any green in the beam? Yellow? Blue? Is the output uniform in color, or splotchy/ringy like the typical 5mm white Nichia LED? Inquiring minds want to know.
    I call it neutral white or "neutral warm". Compared to 4100K CFLs, it is a bit cooler, but not 5000K. I'd say they fall in the 4300 - 4700K by visual observation. It is a 30 Degree beam and is pretty consistent in tint and brightness across the beam. They look like they would have decent CRI figures. No "pee" yellow shades here. If you shine several on the wall at once, you may see some slight tint variance, but nothing drastic. Given the tint and wide angle, don't expect them to be nearly as bright as the cool white Cree or Nichia GS LEDs. From my meter readings, they are very close to the spec of 7,000 mcd.

    These LEDs seem to be designed for continuous duty. After 7,000 hours at 30ma they remain over 100% of initial brightness. That test continues.

    I'd pick up a pack to draw your own conclusions.
    Last edited by JohnR66; 09-03-2010 at 12:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I've been using this exact Radio Shack LED in a SF P60 on 1xCR123 & 2xAA (alkaline only, 2x NiMH don't have enough voltage) for a while now, and I'm very pleased with it. I wouldn't say it's warm, but it's warmer than any other "white" 5mm I've seen. No greens or blues, and very uniform - not splotchy/ringy at all. (I've got a few older ARC-AAA's (w/ older Nichia's, right?) and this LED totally blows them away with regards to tint and beam quality.) $2 for 2 of them at 'Electron Hut', some might call that expensive but I think they are worth it.
    I just got this combo in P60 ("battery vampire") host, running on 1x18650, what kind of runtime can I expect? It appears to be slightly dimmer than Gerber Infinity Ultra but with a better tint.
    It says maximum 3.6V, safe to run it on a fully charged 18650 (4.2V)?
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  29. #29
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    I wouldn't recommend this LED with a fully-charged 18650, but you could always 'take one for the team' and give us an update?

    Edit: Ah, I see from your post in the 'Battery Vampire' thread that you've got a Nichia, not the R/S LED, I don't know what those are like at all. Based on posts there, it sounds like the Nichia might survive a higher Voltage perhaps? I was just replying re: the R/S LED, which I know for a fact can't take 3x Alkaline.


    BTW here are my best attempts at duplicating what I see as the tint with the R/S 5mm:


    (That center hotspot is from the SF P60 reflector, not from the 5mm's optic.)
    Last edited by Kestrel; 09-13-2010 at 12:59 PM.

  30. #30

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    Default Re: Warm White 5mm LEDS?

    It's Nichia GS. I tried running it for 10 seconds off an almost fully charged 18650, probably 4.1V with no interesting consequences... No fireworks, no lights flashing.
    I will do a runtime test over 24 hours, see how far it goes. I hear draws only 25mAh so it should be an ultra long running light.
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