Welch Allyn Penlights?

american lockpicker · May 15, 2009

I have an interest in penlights and while doing a google search I found a Welch Allyn penlight for around $50. How good are these quality wise? Also are they made in Germany? And is it really the best penlight out there?

cryhavok · May 15, 2009

These penlights are pretty good, but way over priced. A friend of mine has one and my Lumens Factory $2.99 penlight is 90% the brightness and about the same tint.

His lamp blew (probably <1 hour use...) and the only way to replace the bulb is to buy a new head assembly for about $15

He is using a LF penlight now

If you aren't looking for incandescent only, you can find much brighter LED penlights. The only reason we are using incandescent is the color rendition (we're medical students)

joema · May 15, 2009

american lockpicker said:
I have an interest in penlights and while doing a ggogle search I found a Welch Allyn penlight for around $50. How good are these quality wise? Also are they made in Germany? And is it really the best penlight out there?

I purchased one as a gift for a medical professional.

It looks very nice, is well constructed, and is the standard medical penlight. However from a technology standpoint, it's archaic. Output is very weak, beam pattern a misshapen blob. 20 years ago all penlights were like that -- current lights are so good we just forget. The Welch Allyn penlight is an artifact from an earlier era, somehow still in production.

There's an argument the incandescent bulb, however weak and primitive, provides better color rendition for tissue examination. However I don't really buy that -- Drs. examine frequently do examinations using fluorescent lights, LED penlights, etc.

If Surefire made a penlight, that would be a similarly-positioned alternative. Ironically they now make a pen, but no penLIGHT.

The Streamlight MicroStream LED might be an alternative.

R@ndom · May 16, 2009

I've had people call my g2 a penlight. Using their logic a 6p with a sunlight, 2 imr's and a 1164 should qualify. :devil:

american lockpicker · May 16, 2009

To me a pen light is a straight tubed 2AA or smaller.

dano · May 16, 2009

joema said:
I purchased one as a gift for a medical professional.

It looks very nice, is well constructed, and is the standard medical penlight. However from a technology standpoint, it's archaic. Output is very weak, beam pattern a misshapen blob. 20 years ago all penlights were like that -- current lights are so good we just forget. The Welch Allyn penlight is an artifact from an earlier era, somehow still in production.

There's an argument the incandescent bulb, however weak and primitive, provides better color rendition for tissue examination. However I don't really buy that -- Drs. examine frequently do examinations using fluorescent lights, LED penlights, etc.

If Surefire made a penlight, that would be a similarly-positioned alternative. Ironically they now make a pen, but no penLIGHT.

The Streamlight MicroStream LED might be an alternative.

Incans are used in the medical field for their color rendition. You won't be examined with an LED light, you won't have surgery under LED lights, etc.

Enough of the LED snobery. Incans' aren't outdated or primitive, and still have significant value in everyday usage.

GarageBoy · May 16, 2009

Ironic that the premier bulb maker makes a mediocore penlight

SilverFox · May 17, 2009

Hello American lockpicker,

I have a couple of the Welch Allyn penlights. One is an antique, the other is the current model. I love them.

I also have several of the Lumens Factory penlights. They are OK, but the lamps don't last very long. I have gone through 4 of them, and the Welch Allyn is still going strong on the original lamp.

Neither of them are suitable for white wall hunting, but both work very well in actual use.

Obviously, the build quality of the Welch Allyn is vastly superior to the Lumens Factory light. I frequently get some filckering from the Lumens Factory light, but this has not been observed with the Welch Allyn light.

I also prefer the positive on/off switch of the Welch Allyn to the reverse clicky of the Lumens Factory light.

Comparing the antique chrome Welch Allyn light to the current one, I find the beam better on the current one. The chrome one is flashy though...

Tom

Nyctophiliac · May 17, 2009

Hi American Lockpicker.

I used to have a 'posh' Welch Alleyn penlight about twenty years ago and it was great - and chrome.

My Father being a Doctor, I always had a few cheap disposable penlights around the house and I do have a minor fetish for torches ( ! ).

I currently own two medical penlights, both superbly made. One is a currently available German made Cliplight by Heine Diagnostic Instruments - which uses AAA batts and is brushed steel finish - very reliable. The other is an old Luminex x10 magnifying instrument made by Beck of London ( not sure which era this was made in - anything from the early forties onward I would think ). This one now has a screw in led bulb which is too bright for intended purpose, but is great for wow factor.

Seeing how bright even a dim led is in close up compared to an incandescent bulb, it seem obvious that the medics would eschew the newer led. But I'm sure with the tint and brightness controls we now have at our disposal, the advent of the led diagnostic pentorch cannot be far away. Especially since various governments the world over seem to want to cease manufacturing incandescant bulbs for ecological reasons!

BTW - Cats love penlights!

SilverFox · May 17, 2009

Here is a picture of my Welch Allyn chrome 760...

Tom

RobertM · May 17, 2009

I would possibly like to get a good penlight for my soon-to-be sister-in-law who is currently in the nursing program at the University.

Could someone who has both the Welch Allyn Penlight (76600) and Lumens Factory penlight post comparative beamshots? I don't doubt that the WA Penlight is probably better built, but I'm just curious as to output and beam quality (I have a LF penlight).

Nyctophiliac · May 18, 2009

SILVERFOX - THAT IS LOVELY!

joema · May 18, 2009

dano said:
Incans are used in the medical field for their color rendition. You won't be examined with an LED light, you won't have surgery under LED lights, etc...
Enough of the LED snobery.

Most of us have ALREADY been examined under a non-incandescent light, such as a circular fluorescent magnifier.

Some of us may have been operated on using LED lights. There are several LED medical lights available.

http://www.enovamedical.com/
http://www.perioptix.com/

Numerous medical professionals have posted on this forum over the years saying they already use LED lights for examination.

Color rendition is an issue -- fortunately there are now high-CRI emitters.

Chrontius · May 18, 2009

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/231563

Robert, why not a Surefire?

RobertM · May 18, 2009

joema said:
Most of us have ALREADY been examined under a non-incandescent light, such as a circular fluorescent magnifier.

Some of us may have been operated on using LED lights. There are several LED medical lights available.

http://www.enovamedical.com/
http://www.perioptix.com/

Numerous medical professionals have posted on this forum over the years saying they already use LED lights for examination.

Color rendition is an issue -- fortunately there are now high-CRI emitters.

I looked at both of the links you provided and, unless I missed it, neither have any mention of color rendition or CRI values for their lights. The closest either comes is Perioptix states "Pure white light for true color rendition" and a color temperature of 6000K. We all know that even warm color temps does not equal high CRI when it comes to LEDs.

Are there any other small medical lights out there that truely have a high CRI LED (such as a Seoul 93-CRI S42180-S2 or N42180L-S2)?

Chrontius said:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/231563

Robert, why not a Surefire?

While that sounds like an interesting idea, I'm thinking that a E2e would be larger than what she would like. Plus, I don't see her using rechargeable cells. Thanks for the link though.

Robert

nickanto · May 18, 2009

The Streamlight Stylus Pro is an awesome penlight and you won't break the beak paying for it.

joema · May 18, 2009

RobertM said:
I looked at both of the links you provided and, unless I missed it, neither have any mention of color rendition or CRI values for their lights. The closest either comes is Perioptix states "Pure white light for true color rendition" and a color temperature of 6000K. We all know that even warm color temps does not equal high CRI when it comes to LEDs.

Are there any other small medical lights out there that truely have a high CRI LED (such as a Seoul 93-CRI S42180-S2 or N42180L-S2)?

My main point concerned your statement that you won't be examined or have surgery under an LED light. That isn't really correct, as many medical professionals have posted on this board they already use LED lights for patient examination. Some say they prefer incandescent, since it's how they were trained.

Many others say they feel (even current) LED lights are adequate for them.

I don't know if any current mass-production small medical lights use truly high CRI LEDs, but as already stated, that's not a gating factor. As more such lights become available, the percentage of medical professionals using them will further increase.

Re surgery, this too is changing and medical illumination will ultimately switch over to LED: http://www.ameinfo.com/182888.html. This may be expedited by new energy efficiency regulations that target phasing out incandescent lighting.

sld · May 20, 2009

Here is a picture of my Welch Allyn chrome 760...

I have one of those from about 25-30 years ago. I bought when I worked at a battery research company as the crappy one they supplied were always flickering or not working or way to dim. It's still in my small tool bag and still working fine, though I did have to order a new lamp for it a couple of years ago.

SilverFox · May 21, 2009

As with all things, the tool specifications need to match the job you are using it for...

I had a discussion with a physician yesterday about the various lighting types used in the medical profession.

For gross evaluation, any light will do.

The more precise the requirements of the observation, the more important the color temperature and CRI values are.

The "best" lights are used in surgery, but even there it is often necessary to use filters for critical evaluation.

So, if you come to the doctors office with a finger cut off, the LED versus incandescent light source argument is meaningless. However, when the surgeon is attempting to reconnect your finger, it becomes very important.

Another area where correct color rendering is important is in the dentist office. When trying to match the shade of color of your teeth, it is important to have a broad spectrum light source.

He happened to have both LED and Welch Allyn penlights. He reserves the Welch Allyn light for special cases, and uses the LED light for routine use. It is easier to simply dispose of the inexpensive LED light than to go through decontamination procedures if the light becomes contaminated. In addition, he receives free lights from the various drug manufacturers, both incandescent and LED...

He did admit that he preferred the Welch Allyn light.

I am sure that if I discussed this with a number of other physicians I would get a number of different perspectives on this, but his responses seem to make sense to me.

Tom

RobertM · May 22, 2009

SilverFox said:
As with all things, the tool specifications need to match the job you are using it for...

I had a discussion with a physician yesterday about the various lighting types used in the medical profession.

For gross evaluation, any light will do.

The more precise the requirements of the observation, the more important the color temperature and CRI values are.

The "best" lights are used in surgery, but even there it is often necessary to use filters for critical evaluation.

So, if you come to the doctors office with a finger cut off, the LED versus incandescent light source argument is meaningless. However, when the surgeon is attempting to reconnect your finger, it becomes very important.

Another area where correct color rendering is important is in the dentist office. When trying to match the shade of color of your teeth, it is important to have a broad spectrum light source.

He happened to have both LED and Welch Allyn penlights. He reserves the Welch Allyn light for special cases, and uses the LED light for routine use. It is easier to simply dispose of the inexpensive LED light than to go through decontamination procedures if the light becomes contaminated. In addition, he receives free lights from the various drug manufacturers, both incandescent and LED...

He did admit that he preferred the Welch Allyn light.

I am sure that if I discussed this with a number of other physicians I would get a number of different perspectives on this, but his responses seem to make sense to me.

Tom

Tom, thanks for relaying to us the insights from your conversation(s). Were any of the LED lights anything us CPF'ers would recognize or were they just generic freebie lights?

If it would be at all possible, could you post a beamshot comparison of your newer WA pen light and your LF pen light?

Thanks,
Robert

Welch Allyn Penlights?

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