I might need a shotgun. please share your security idea.

I am not NRA memeber. I am anti-gun, never liked the idea of non-LEO people carrying guns arround, or having guns for myself.

BUT... I think I need to reconsider that idea from now on.

Just an hour ago, my wife heard strange noise coming out of my door. I was not able to hear the sound, but the wife noticed that. I looked through the peephole and I found a guy picking on the lock, tried to open the door. I stood back by the door having my flashlight and baseball bat in case he breaks in. The wife called police asked them send someone immediately.

He was doing that for approx. 5 minutes, then he gave up, turned arround, moved away. After 10 minutes, police knocked my door, asked us what we saw, how he looked like and other information. They wrote them down, told us they will take a look arround. Then I saw they were driving out of the apartment complex. This certainly was a scary moments, not to mention that ruined our perfectly calm evening hours.

I was kind of clueless about what should I do, and I still am.
It was not like a movie, and I ain't no movie hero.
What if he is real criminal minded? What if he draw a knife at me or points a gun on me? What if he is big and strong like a bear? I may be able to get him, but even so, do I want to risk myself by confronting him? What do I do even if I caught him? What if, not one but bunch of guys try to break in at the same time?

I felt hopeless. All I can do is stood there, call police for help.
Police can not always make it on time. I felt like I need more options than just that. This made me rethink about the idea on guns. I still don't like the idea of having guns, but I may need one or two in the future. I hope not though.

Guys, please have a deadbolt installed on your door, that is the lock they can't easily break. Reinforce your windows, get alarm installed if possible.

And please share your security ideas for me, for all of us.

Thanks.

most dead bolts can be picked in a few seconds check out youtube get a moosburg 500 decent 12 gauge.thats pretty much bomb proof anyone who dont own a gun in this time in are world is a brave person we have home invasion daily around here they beat the folks to almost there death

Seeing as you are not big on guns and do not care much for them, i would recomend getting something in the $200 range, like a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 from a pawn shop or sporting goods store. nothing special, just a proven shotgun that will put anyone down that is in your house. seeing as you are on cpf and all, you may want a SF shotgun light to mount on it as well. but i would stick with one of those. (870 is my choice, but 500 is just as good)

Also, do not let this control you. i am not saying that you should not get a gun to defend your self, as i see it as a great idea, but do not let this put you in deep fear for the rest of life. fear is a good thing, as it keeps us in order and can save our lives, yet too much fear and you can destroy yourself and your family. i am just saying this because it can happen, and i hate to see it happen to regular people with regular lives who get to scared of outside threats and rip themselfs apart.

Sounds like a pretty stupid criminal. Not only was he unskilled at picking locks, he was trying it at an occupied private residence. I would have tried to take a picture or video of him in the act through the peephole to show the cops with my sidearm handy also. It's hard for me not to dislike you for your anti-gun stance and even harder when I read the hypocrisy of you contemplating owning one. I'm just glad that most people don't agree with you and we still have a second amendment so you still have the option to protect yourself and your family. I bet that 5 minutes felt like an eternity till the police arrived.

And--only get the shotgun (or other firearm) if you will practice pumping a few dozen rounds through it right after you get it (better would be to get a real weapon training class).

Knowing what to expect when the thing goes off (kick, flash, noise, smoke) will help prevent you from panicking (before and after you shoot).

If the gun you purchase supports "dry firing" (pulling the trigger on an empty changer--no cartridges present)--that is also a good thing to practice.

Many people will flinch as they pull the trigger anticipating the "bang" and recoil--and wildly miss the target. Getting used to pulling the trigger and staying on target while the hammer "clicks" will really improve your aim when live rounds are used.

Also, get a simple cleaning kit (brush, wipes, rod, solvent, oil). As you clean--it may also reduce some of the apprehension of being around guns.

If you are more scared of the gun than the perpetrator--The gun might not do you much good... My other defensive weapon--a big old can of Bear Spray (pepper spray). May not be perfect--but useful for when you are not there and your wife/family is.

(note: I am certainly no expert or have received any firearms training--just what I have seen in years past while plinking at the range--I am sure there are others here with way more expertise than I--And, thank God, I have not had to use any of these for self defense in my life).

-Bill

seaside said:

What if he is real criminal minded? What if he draw a knife at me or points a gun on me? What if he is big and strong like a bear? I may be able to get him, but even so, do I want to risk myself by confronting him? What do I do even if I caught him? What if, not one but bunch of guys try to break in at the same time?

Click to expand...

It happens. Innocent people get robbed, raped, and killed all the time. It's your life perhaps it's time to be prepared to defend it.

seaside said:

I felt hopeless. All I can do is stood there, call police for help.
Police can not always make it on time. I felt like I need more options than just that. This made me rethink about the idea on guns. I still don't like the idea of having guns, but I may need one or two in the future.

Click to expand...

I think you need something now. Actually I think you needed it an hour ago. Police response can be very slow and is usually too late. At least here. A pump shotgun is an excelent idea as long as you and your wife become confident with using it. That means practice time.

seaside said:

Guys, please have a deadbolt installed on your door, that is the lock they can't easily break. Reinforce your windows, get alarm installed if possible.

Click to expand...

It's easy to kick a door in. Deadbolt or not. What does the frame look like where the bolt goes in, a little metal plate around a hole? Nearly worthless. The key is having a good metal frame anchored properly to the home. Even then a bumpkey works in 2 seconds and you're inside. Look at bumpkeys on youtube, lots of places online sell them. Hit the phonebook tomorrow and find somebody to help with security. Alarms are a deterrent but still all that really does is call the cops for you after the guy's inside possible killing you. Think about getting a steel bar that locks both into the door and into the floor at the same time. That's tough to get past!

Make your home appear to be occupied as much as you can. That's a good deterrent. As are alarm company signs and large dogs.

Shotguns are great for short range home defense, but they also have SERIOUS noise and large amounts recoil. Despite what the gun store owners say, I don't agree that a gun with so much recoil is a good choice for someone that is new to guns.

I'd rather see you get a 9mm carbine (or another pistol caliber carbine), or a pistol so that it will be easier to train/practice with. You're wife also would probably find a rilfe or pistol less punishing to train with.

Yes, a shotgun throws out a lot more pattern that a single projectile, but you still do have to aim it and control it. Shotguns are not the magic spray and pray (without aiming) device that so many believe, as at short range the buckshot pattern is perhaps the size of a fist.

Whatever you get, take a safety training class, and then spend a lot of time with your wife at the range. You must master whatever firearm you get so that if TSHTF, handling the firearm will be second nature to you.

The deadbolt I was refering to was manual slide bar, thick one, not that one using a key to open it. After reading what sgt.LED said, it looks like it is not safe as I thought before.

Please don't get me wrong.
Me being not a pro gun is not important to me or to anyone.

When it comes to guns, I probabaly shot more bullets than most of you people.
Being a former army ranger I am, I've been trained pretty well. But that does not mean me to be a pro gun. I have great deal of respect for the power the gun has. You will when you see someone you knew got killed by gunfire. I never thought of having one hoping I don't ever need them again, ever. Don't worry, pro guns. I am not anti-gun activist either. I guess I was little too hopeful, little too naive. That's why I am reconsidering guns to protect myself from possible future hostile situation. That does not have to be a shotgun, and what kinda gun is effective is not an issue for me.

What I want to hear from you guys is home security idea, not a gun recommendation.
Sorry for confusion and thank you.

o0o said:

Shotguns are great for short range home defense, but they also have SERIOUS noise and large amounts recoil. Despite what the gun store owners say, I don't agree that a gun with so much recoil is a good choice for someone that is new to guns.

I'd rather see you get a 9mm carbine (or another pistol caliber carbine), or a pistol so that it will be easier to train/practice with. You're wife also would probably find a rilfe or pistol less punishing to train with.

Yes, a shotgun throws out a lot more pattern that a single projectile, but you still do have to aim it and control it. Shotguns are not the magic spray and pray (without aiming) device that so many believe, as at short range the buckshot pattern is perhaps the size of a fist.

Whatever you get, take a safety training class, and then spend a lot of time with your wife at the range. You must master whatever firearm you get so that if TSHTF, handling the firearm will be second nature to you.

Click to expand...

I would be carefull with a carbgine of any sort, as if you live in a residential area, a pistol or rifle round may enter the next house or room and you may have an unwanted fatality on your hands. not saying that a shotgun wont do the same thing, but a pisol or rifle has more penetration.

I forgot, a fat broomstick or thick shovel handle in every window and sliding glass doors if you have those.

No jimmying that. Even if it's unlocked you still can't open it if you cut them to just fit. They have to smash the window first and reach in to remove it giving you some warning and costing them time.

Outdoor Security lights with Motion Detectors...

Bad guy does not know (for sure) if somebody inside turned it on or not.

Also, a whole bunch of light going on attracts attention (you or your neighbors).

At one time (don't know about now), our insurance company gave the same discount for wired alarms OR exterior Motion Detector operated lighting.

If people wondering around your property is a problem--I would connect the motion detectors (or use separate sensors) to alert you in the home that somebody may be prowling outside.

Personally, I think outdoor M.D. lighting is better than throwing a 175 watt mercury vapor street lamp on the home--while also being a heck of a lot more energy efficient.

We have raccoons in our area--so detecting a human and ignoring an animal (or if you have outdoor pets) may require a bit more work.

For when you guys are home (or even to use on all doors except the one you enter/exit from during the day)--those simple interior only latches (and dead bolts) are not bad at keeping the "sneak thief" at bay. My in-law's home uses the electric garage door for entry/exit--and the front door has one of those "cheap door hinge" like locks. Was enough to stop a guy trying to pick his way in. Neighbors even saw the guy hanging around their front door and never even called the cops or take down the license number of the pickup--but they did talk ask him why he was there (pretty obvious he did not belong).

But--as always--if they want in--they will get in.

-Bill

If you're not comfortable with the idea of owning a gun, it might not be a good idea to get one. At best, you'll just have this thing around that doesn't fit with what you think is right. At worst, you may find yourself in a situation where you might need to use it, and it could become a liability. Just for example, a "warning shot" tells criminals that you're unwilling to actually shoot them, so they have no reason to fear being actually shot.

I think you should sit down and think about why you don't believe people should have guns, and then think about why you're now considering owning a gun. I can't shake the conclusion that the two views are mutually exclusive.

Have you considered a less-than-lethal alternative, such as OC spray, TASER, etc.? Either of these, used properly, would be more effective than an improperly-used (or unused) firearm.

im a very small guy and i handle a shot gun 12 gauge easy.it does kick so id for sure take some classes.maybe start off with using number 8 bird shot.i use 00 buck for my home defense but if ya have thin walls or people who live near by there may be to much over penetration with 00 buck.in my area alarms dont stop them they just come in they want you to be home so they can find where ya money is at just last week some thugs broke into a older couples home and beat the hell out of em the lady still is hospitalized if i recall.the bad economy is making thugs more desperate

Sgt. LED said:

I forgot, a fat broomstick or thick shovel handle in every window and sliding glass doors if you have those.

No jimmying that. Even if it's unlocked you still can't open it if you cut them to just fit. They have to smash the window first and reach in to remove it giving you some warning and costing them time.

Click to expand...

Most sliding glass doors and windows are easy to open even if "locked" and a stick in the slot.
They come out the same way they went in, you just lift them.
If they have a deadbolt type lock that won't work but those are rare. I have gone into a lot of houses this way. (Dressed in yellow clothes with a big red thing at the curb.
With windows, in many cases the hard part is getting the screen off without breaking it.

Mike Painter said:

Most sliding glass doors and windows are easy to open even if "locked" and a stick in the slot.
They come out the same way they went in, you just lift them.
If they have a deadbolt type lock that won't work but those are rare. I have gone into a lot of houses this way. (Dressed in yellow clothes with a big red thing at the curb.
With windows, in many cases the hard part is getting the screen off without breaking it.

Click to expand...

People really put the exterior handles on?

SilentK said:

I would be carefull with a carbgine of any sort, as if you live in a residential area, a pistol or rifle round may enter the next house or room and you may have an unwanted fatality on your hands. not saying that a shotgun wont do the same thing, but a pisol or rifle has more penetration.

Click to expand...

Carbines are way easier to learn on (and hit with) than shotguns, and anything from buckshot up to slugs has too much penetration, too. It's also needed to reliably incapacitate someone -- birdshot makes ugly injuries, but won't stop someone on PCP (or other drugs) or with a freakish pain threshold. While I love the Surefire forends as much as the next guy, I'd recommend a pistol-calibre carbine with a laser sight. A weaponlight isn't absolutely necessary, since there are techniques for long guns and hand-lights, but I'd have my 6P on Weaver rings on there in a heartbeat.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm

The lack of rails is unhappy, but it'd be my first choice if outfitted right.

An M1 Carbine with the Ultimak scout mount and a Picatinny rail on the bayonet lug would be a very close second. While the M1 got a reputation for not being terribly powerful, modern ammunition helped enormously, and it still isn't as likely to go through walls as a full-up rifle round.

TigerhawkT3 said:

If you're not comfortable with the idea of owning a gun, it might not be a good idea to get one. At best, you'll just have this thing around that doesn't fit with what you think is right. At worst, you may find yourself in a situation where you might need to use it, and it could become a liability. Just for example, a "warning shot" tells criminals that you're unwilling to actually shoot them, so they have no reason to fear being actually shot.

I think you should sit down and think about why you don't believe people should have guns, and then think about why you're now considering owning a gun. I can't shake the conclusion that the two views are mutually exclusive.

Have you considered a less-than-lethal alternative, such as OC spray, TASER, etc.? Either of these, used properly, would be more effective than an improperly-used (or unused) firearm.

Click to expand...

Yes. you got a good point, and I do appreciate that.
I do believe any person of legal age have every right to own whatever they can buy as long as it is not illegal. I am only worrying about irresponsive people playing with guns without proper respect, like those drug junkies are doing in the slum area.

I was intentionally trying to keep myself away from guns for years after what's happened when I was in the army. Let's say its sort of mental trauma I've got when I was there. I hoped i won't need a gun if I moved to better area. Now I have to admit that the idea was little too naive, and the fact when poop happens, it happens no matter what I think or where I live. So its not about buying guns, but about getting prepared for possible danger that might come in my way. Getting a gun is a part of that.

Thanks for the advice. Will think more about what you said.

a regular 12 GA Mossberg would be fine, make sure you practice with it so you know what to do under stress, and get a safe to store it.

It's good that you are coming around on the issue. See my sig line.

The Mossberg is ok, but sometimes the pump action sticks. The Remmintons are super smooth.

The first step is really to strengthen your doors and windows. Seriously consider installing metal frames on your doorways instead of wooden ones. If you don't believe me, try kicking in a "not regularly used" door in your house - believe me, it is way too easy to break a wooden frame.

Your wife is who you should really be concerned about - consider if there is a room that can be made extra strong so she is safe until help can arrive.

Exterior cameras can help. With 15 - 20 % of the country unemployed or under employed, even good people are going to get desperate.

seaside said:

I am not NRA memeber. I am anti-gun, never liked the idea of non-LEO people carrying guns arround, or having guns for myself.

BUT... I think I need to reconsider that idea from now on.

Just an hour ago, my wife heard strange noise coming out of my door. I was not able to hear the sound, but the wife noticed that. I looked through the peephole and I found a guy picking on the lock, tried to open the door. I stood back by the door having my flashlight and baseball bat in case he breaks in. The wife called police asked them send someone immediately.

He was doing that for approx. 5 minutes, then he gave up, turned arround, moved away. After 10 minutes, police knocked my door, asked us what we saw, how he looked like and other information. They wrote them down, told us they will take a look arround. Then I saw they were driving out of the apartment complex. This certainly was a scary moments, not to mention that ruined our perfectly calm evening hours.

I was kind of clueless about what should I do, and I still am.
It was not like a movie, and I ain't no movie hero.
What if he is real criminal minded? What if he draw a knife at me or points a gun on me? What if he is big and strong like a bear? I may be able to get him, but even so, do I want to risk myself by confronting him? What do I do even if I caught him? What if, not one but bunch of guys try to break in at the same time?

I felt hopeless. All I can do is stood there, call police for help.
Police can not always make it on time. I felt like I need more options than just that. This made me rethink about the idea on guns. I still don't like the idea of having guns, but I may need one or two in the future. I hope not though.

Guys, please have a deadbolt installed on your door, that is the lock they can't easily break. Reinforce your windows, get alarm installed if possible.

And please share your security ideas for me, for all of us.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I would of never imagined those thoughts going through the mind of an ex army ranger. Not trying to act macho or anything but when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Too slow for me.



but if that happened to me, my gf would be calling the cops, I will be in a secure firing position with a bullet path away from my neighbors property. If she had her headset on, she would be holding my .45 (shes trained) and I will have my 870. If I lived in a rural area I'd use .308 just in case they have body armor. I just hope all the thugs are standing a single file so I can save ammo. .308 is expensive! If only it was legal to shoot through the door....or at a fleeing criminal who just tried to rob/kill you