Holding a flashlight

I've noticed in TV shows that show police officers with flashlights, they hold it overhand, as if throwing a javelin. Civilians tend to hold flashlights underhanded, as though about to shake hands.

On one episode of Law and Order actually had this as part of the plot. It was determined that the (victim or suspect, I forget which) held the flashlight overhand, and was most likely a police officer or military person.

What is the rationale for holding a flashlight overhand?

Just curious.

Thanks,
KR

Well, if you've got a tail switch, it sure is easier to turn on/off. I carry my M2CX4 underhand for easier access to the control ring. So, I would say over or under depends on the UI.

my rationale:
one is location of the switch. if its in the tailcap you have instant access to it with your thumb for other modes. (and most flashlights these days do have it there)

second, its via self defense, when your hand is up, its part protection pose if someone jumps on you. hand moves faster straight ahead and down and sideways when its elevated than from waist to protect the head. think boxing (and other martial arts "at the ready" stance) weak hand most times is in front of you in chest height, very natural pose to deflect and defend.

and even if tripped in dark alleyway its more ready to break the fall for you.

and the bigger lights like maglites carried over hand grip (icepick grip for some) on ones shoulder, its insta-ready baton too. swing foward and down to give some blunt force trauma. and also you can relieve the weight of carrying it by resting it on your shoulder.

and if the light is in front of you on your weak hand and strong hand draws a gun, you can support that weapon for better accuracy with weaker hand while aiming the light to its target.

Yeah, for tail cap clickies, more often than not, the person would be holding the flashlight overhand (as if to throw a javelin). Check this Surefire insitute video for the rationale of holding the light overhand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOTGnrnm_Ps&feature=channel_page

Before SureFire, there was Maglite, with their side button metal flashlights. Holding the light overhand allows one to use the side button light as an expedient impact weapon. Also compatible with Harries.

The rationale for using it overhand i think has been explained well here.
Only to add that it's a pain to use the overhand grip for long use.
I always use the underhand grip when out for long ours (night trekking, walking etc). Doesn't matter if the light has a tailswitch or not.

for a smaller light like my Jetbeam Jet I MkIIx/r i hold it in a cigar style grip, the alternate grip is overhand position but the light is so tiny that it can get engulfed in the hand.

Cigar style for that particular light makes it easy to turn on and change modes.

Cool thread, Photon.

:thumbsup:




Oh, and Happy Birthday, also !






Gee, you've been a CPF member for


more than 8 YEARS,



and you only have 86 posts ? ? ?




I hearby proclaim you an Official Flashaholic,


regardless of being 14 posts short of 100.





_

there is one other reason of holding it overhand, that is to point the beam of light at the same angle and height as your eyes so if something is blocking your site at an angle that would make it unseen if the light was used underhanded it would be up higher than it. Elevation helps in some cases to see farther out.

for cops, that would also make it possible to support the gun hand while, at the same time, direct the light to where the gun points.

Probably not a good idea to watch cop shows, that aren't taped from real officers, and expect it to be similar.

We sometimes watch them in the break room to laugh at how the tactics are so very far from real.

However, how a light is held with no gun drawn is determined on the situation. As explained earlier.

Here a few sites that show how to use a gun and a light. Even shows how to use side switch lights.

http://www.surefire.com/articles-handheld_techniques

http://www.nrapublications.org/si/HB_handgun.html

http://www.surefire.com/grahamMethod

Note* The Graham Method, I do believe, was created by a US Air Marshal.

The Graham Method and the Rogers/SureFire have been the best all around in my opinion. Once you get used to getting into the right positions quickly.

Burgess, Thank You for your kind words.

I think the Holding a Flashlight issue is best summarized by:

kramer5150 said:

Click to expand...

Cigar hold is the best hold, end of discussion

Haha that's what I like anyway:
-Easy access to switch
-Nice and "pointy" feeling if that makes sense
-More comfortable than overhand

Only disadvantage I can see is that you are slightly more likely to drop it.

Doesn't work so well with recessed, tailstanding tailcap switches. Also, not so secure when under stress, especially if you hold the light in your non-dominant hand so that your dominant hand is available for other tasks. Also, probably not so secure if you are on the move. Also not so good for expedient Kubotan usage.

Search said:

Probably not a good idea to watch cop shows, that aren't taped from real officers, and expect it to be similar.

We sometimes watch them in the break room to laugh at how the tactics are so very far from real.

However, how a light is held with no gun drawn is determined on the situation. As explained earlier.

Here a few sites that show how to use a gun and a light. Even shows how to use side switch lights.

http://www.surefire.com/articles-handheld_techniques

http://www.nrapublications.org/si/HB_handgun.html

http://www.surefire.com/grahamMethod

Note* The Graham Method, I do believe, was created by a US Air Marshal.

The Graham Method and the Rogers/SureFire have been the best all around in my opinion. Once you get used to getting into the right positions quickly.

Click to expand...

Rogers/cigar hold is fine as a gun/light technique, but IMO it is a poor general purpose technique. Also, it doesn't work well with recessed tailcap buttons.

Graham IMO is wobbly to aim. You are trying to mate a small, slightly curved surface (tailcap button) with another small, irregularly curved surface (knuckle).

The NRA Publications discussion of the various flashlight holds is not the best way to actually learn how to execute the various techniques. It is a nice overview, but leaves out a lot of key details.

For example, the Ayoob method discussion omits some important details and is incorrect in another.

The Ayoob Method is good for short-range gun-light usage. Beyond about 7 yards, the light typically is angled too much so that the beam goes over the opponent's head. Also, more specifically, it isn't just thumb meets thumb. It is base of thumb meets base of thumb.

Isometric tension is not what stabilizes the gun in the Ayoob Method. Firearm recoil always moves the gun toward the path of least resistance. For a one-hand gun hold, that means the gun tends to move toward the open "C" of the hand. That happens to be where the flashlight hand happens to be, and that is what stabilizes the hold.

The discussion on Chapman neglects to mention that the method is slow to acquire. The grip isn't just a generic "sword" grip. Specifically, I'd call it closer to a sabre grip, with thumb forward. There are some technique details that help align the light with the gun. You want to use the "OK" finger sign and encircle the light with the thumb and index finger. align the flashlight tube parallel with the long axis of the thumb. Where the thumb points is where the light points. The other 3 fingers grip the gun in a modified two-hand hold. Most people can operate the light using their thumb.

For Harries, the safest way to get the flashlight under the gun and to the other side where you can mate back of hand with back of hand is to index the flashlight hand against your torso and then along the outside of your shooting arm. Body contact will pretty much eliminate the possibility of crossing your flashlight hand/arm with the muzzle.

I haven't found a surefire I could comfortably hold underhand, unless the switch is locked in first. The design of lights often dictate its handling orientation, as a flashlight with a slide switch will feel awkward in the overhead position

generally (average Joe user), how i hold the light depends on
1) its size
2) balance
3) switch position
4) switching mechanism
5) duration
6) the need to cycle through modes

Search said:

Note* The Graham Method, I do believe, was created by a US Air Marshal.

The Graham Method and the Rogers/SureFire have been the best all around in my opinion. Once you get used to getting into the right positions quickly.

Click to expand...

Actually, Novatac came out with it and presented it at shot show in 07', then suddenly, Surefire came out with it under another name.

But in anycase, I would like to introduce the "Hogo Method"!
For use with any tail activated light.



Pros:
Light will always be on target if you are looking at the target.
Leaves both hands free for a secure grip on the firearm and makes reloading faster.
No need for tritium sights
Activation button is depressed with tongue.

Cons:
Verbal commands can be difficult.
Dentist bill
Drawing from the holster takes eyes off subject, however if done properly, the subject will stand paralyzed wondering how you could possibly be so flexible.

Let's see Surefire take this one!

:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign:

:thanks:

_