DIY P60 drop-ins?

Hopefully I'm posting this in the right place..

I'd like to take a shot at building my own P7 or MCE drop-in but I'm not really sure where to start. I guess maybe I should post what I'd like to end up with and you guys can tell me if it's even possible.
For starters I'd like it to be compatible with both 1x and 2x 18650 and have 3 modes (low, mid, high) or even 4 modes with an extra low.
I'm no good at estimating lumens, but low should be usable in a car at night without blinding the driver. Medium should be on par with a single mode R2 drop-in and I'd like high to be this insane wall of light for 10 minutes or less at a shot. It would also be really nice if there was some way to have it automatically drop back to medium if it starts to get hot but that may be asking too much. Is there a driver available that would do all or most of this in a P60 sized package?

As for the emitter, I know I'm not going to get a bunch of throw out of a 4 die emitter in a P60 size reflector and I don't really need a bunch of throw. I'm looking more for something to carry while walking the dogs and to light up the whole back yard with to see what they're barking at. With that in mind, would I be better off with the P7 or the MCE?

I guess that's about it for the first post. If this is possible, I'm sure I'll have more questions regarding gathering up the parts to build it.

Thanks,
Tony

hmmm that battery requirement is difficult...

As far as I know you cna either 2 of the follinf three
17mm size (amc7135 sanwiches, shark buck, KD PWM Driver)
1 AND 2 batts (sharkbuck)
modes (amc7135 KD PWM driver)

or am i wrong that the sharkbuck is only single mode?

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/233845

Here you go ...

Driver = This one


Or = This one

Sorry , ATM from drivers available = Either 1 x 18650 , or 2 x 18650 , I am not aware of any driver that will fit into the pill that will do both ..
The second driver , should be able to handle 2 x Primary 3v CR123A .. I currently run 2 of these drivers with SSC P7 .

Also a quick heads up .. A lot of the P60 pills [ DIY ] will not handle sandwich drivers , you need a very deep pill , like the R2 ones from DX that go 8.2v , these use dual board drivers so a sandwich driver should fit , WARNING , the R2 Crees are glued in tight , real tight , and you may end up destroying the R2 cree trying to remove it .. [ False economy ]

kosPap said:

hmmm that battery requirement is difficult...

As far as I know you cna either 2 of the follinf three
17mm size (amc7135 sanwiches, shark buck, KD PWM Driver)
1 AND 2 batts (sharkbuck)
modes (amc7135 KD PWM driver)

or am i wrong that the sharkbuck is only single mode?

Click to expand...

The thing is, I know nothing about any of them. If I do this, it will be my first attempt at building anything LED related, so I'm completely unfamiliar with the different names and part numbers of the available drivers. I'll do some searching and try to get up to speed on the ones you mentioned. Also, I wanted to get an opinion on sku#1217 on shiningbeam.com. I'd have to give up 2 cell compatibility but otherwise it seems (to my limited knowledge) like it might be close to what I'm looking for.

I'll also need help with a materials list when it comes time to order parts as I don't know what kind of reflector I should use (does anybody even make one for a P7 in a P60 or will I have to modify one to work?) and what sort of thermal glue/paste I'll need for mounting the led and anything else I can't get locally. Ideally I'd like to order everything at once so when it gets here I can start working instead of waiting a month on something I didn't order the first time.

Anyhow, sorry for the incoherent rambling, and thanks for the help!

Tony

old4570 said:

Driver = This one


Or = This one

Sorry , ATM from drivers available = Either 1 x 18650 , or 2 x 18650 , I am not aware of any driver that will fit into the pill that will do both ..
The second driver , should be able to handle 2 x Primary 3v CR123A .. I currently run 2 of these drivers with SSC P7 .

Also a quick heads up .. A lot of the P60 pills [ DIY ] will not handle sandwich drivers , you need a very deep pill , like the R2 ones from DX that go 8.2v , these use dual board drivers so a sandwich driver should fit , WARNING , the R2 Crees are glued in tight , real tight , and you may end up destroying the R2 cree trying to remove it .. [ False economy ]

Click to expand...

Ah, you snuck in on me while I was replying to kosPap's post (I'd wandered away from the computer for awhile mid-reply). Checking out your links now...

Thanks!

old4570 said:

Driver = This one


Or = This one

Sorry , ATM from drivers available = Either 1 x 18650 , or 2 x 18650 , I am not aware of any driver that will fit into the pill that will do both ..
The second driver , should be able to handle 2 x Primary 3v CR123A .. I currently run 2 of these drivers with SSC P7 .

Also a quick heads up .. A lot of the P60 pills [ DIY ] will not handle sandwich drivers , you need a very deep pill , like the R2 ones from DX that go 8.2v , these use dual board drivers so a sandwich driver should fit , WARNING , the R2 Crees are glued in tight , real tight , and you may end up destroying the R2 cree trying to remove it .. [ False economy ]

Click to expand...

Now that I've had a chance to look that over, that looks perfect! I've got your thread bookmarked now for future reference. My ignorance is showing here, but I'm curious what you mean by sandwich driver? Is that a single board with components on both sides (like the one from shining beam) as opposed to dual board which would be two wired together? Also, when you say a lot of the DIY pills will not handle sandwich drivers, have you run across any that will? I ask because it would be nice to avoid having to buy a good drop-in and destroy it in the process of building this one if I could get the empty pill somewhere instead.

:thanks:for the help!

Tony

Tony Hanna said:

My ignorance is showing here, but I'm curious what you mean by sandwich driver? Is that a single board with components on both sides (like the one from shining beam) as opposed to dual board which would be two wired together?

Click to expand...

When Matt says "sandwich driver" he means two boards wired together.
Matt's thread Sandwich Driver - It works - CandlePowerForums

Empty P60s
Diameter 26mm Aluminum OP Reflector
SMO Aluminum 26mm Reflector
There are others if you want to look around on DX or KD.

Norm

4 x SSC P7 and 1 MC-E

Left to right ..

SSC p7 + 3Mode Driver from shiningbeam in a Ultrafire 502B
Same as above in L2

SSC P7 + 5 mode KD driver in both remaining L2's

Mini L2 has 5 mode KD driver + MC-E DX drop in .

The MC-E runs hotter than the SSC P7's ..

Remember the SSC P7 base is live [ part of the circuit ] and needs to be isolated ..

Space in the pill is at a premium so pre-solder the tabs on the LED or the wires may not take hold properly .. Pre solder the wires ...
Be very careful with the reflector , it may short out on the wires soldered to the LED , so depending on how clean your soldering is , you may need a nonconductive spacer / washer . I got some fiber tap washers that are thin enough .. and fit over the LED just right and stop any contact between the reflector and the wires connected to the LED ..

If you short it , you will fry your tail clicky .... because the amps will quickly climb to around 8A or more
Something has to give as you approach 10A , better the tail clicky than the battery blowing up .
So use a multimeter to fully test modes etc , and if you see the Amps going too high , you have a short .

:thumbsup:

old4570 said:

..
If you short it , you will fry your tail clicky .... because the amps will quickly climb to around 8A or more
Something has to give as you approach 10A , better the tail clicky than the battery blowing up .

Click to expand...

A very good reason to use protected batteries Matt.
Norm

Norm said:

A very good reason to use protected batteries Matt.
Norm

Click to expand...

Yes - Indeed !! :whoopin:

Well this is a premature (since the whole info on vare DIY modules will be in a seperate thread next week)
but...

if you need a deep board socket you got to buy the DX 5955 Seoul led module....Then you combine that with a Cree reflector and you are GTG... I miked depth thursday night and it either goes to 8.2 or 8.4 deep

I did use one , and the [ is it copper ? ] ring was a little lose ..

I have another pill on order that looks deep [ ? ]

I really want to use my own drivers if I can ...
Next one I hope will be 2.6A 3 mode , I really can live without strobe and SOS .

I only plan on doing one more SSC P7 P60 drop in , and using a sandwich driver .

R3 and R4 Cree should be out shortly , and SST 50 LED's will hopefully become more widely available ..

And Im looking at my A20 EDC for a SSC P7 mod as well , should be sweet !

Norm said:

When Matt says "sandwich driver" he means two boards wired together.
Matt's thread Sandwich Driver - It works - CandlePowerForums

Empty P60s
Diameter 26mm Aluminum OP Reflector
SMO Aluminum 26mm Reflector
There are others if you want to look around on DX or KD.

Norm

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification on that! So, I should be good with any of the empty P60 modules from DX or KD as long as I stick with a single board driver like the one from shiningbeam? I think I'm gonna take a crawl before I walk approach to this and just use a single board driver for the first one.

old4570 said:

Remember the SSC P7 base is live [ part of the circuit ] and needs to be isolated ..

Space in the pill is at a premium so pre-solder the tabs on the LED or the wires may not take hold properly .. Pre solder the wires ...
Be very careful with the reflector , it may short out on the wires soldered to the LED , so depending on how clean your soldering is , you may need a nonconductive spacer / washer . I got some fiber tap washers that are thin enough .. and fit over the LED just right and stop any contact between the reflector and the wires connected to the LED ..

If you short it , you will fry your tail clicky .... because the amps will quickly climb to around 8A or more
Something has to give as you approach 10A , better the tail clicky than the battery blowing up .
So use a multimeter to fully test modes etc , and if you see the Amps going too high , you have a short .

:thumbsup:

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips! I wonder why they included the base in the circuit? Also, what kind of glue did you use to glue the LED down? Something that's both an electrical insulator and thermally conductive has got to be some pretty specialized stuff right? As for the nonconductive washer, do you think something cut out of a piece of automotive gasket paper would work? If so I've got that covered.

Thanks Again,

Tony

Glue ????? :thinking:

No you solder the board in place .. ill take a picture ! ..

Matt




A much abused and used driver - Its powered 3 diff LED's now - Currently Luxeon K2 TFFC

I think we've got a bit of a miscommunication.
I was referring to the non conductive thermal glue that you referenced in your tutorial post for attaching the LED itself to the brass. Just wondering where to get that as the closest I'd have is the usual heat sink paste for CPUs and Ford ignition modules.

old4570 said:

Glue ????? :thinking:

No you solder the board in place .. ill take a picture ! ..

Matt

Click to expand...

Oh Ok ...

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_alumina_thermal_adhesive.htm

You want this stuff ....

In terms of best thermal conductivity, you should follow CPFer yellow's advice and use thermal compound/paste (e.g., Arctic Alumina thermal compound) under the LED. Then use regular epoxy to glue the periphery of the LED to the heat sink to secure the emitter.

If you want to use thermal epoxy/adhesive, I would recommend Arctic Alumina thermal adhesive, not Arctic Silver thermal adhesive, as your general purpose thermal "glue". Arctic Silver is slightly capacitive, which could be bad if you used AS epoxy to pot any electronics like a driver.

old4570 said:

Oh Ok ...

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_alumina_thermal_adhesive.htm

You want this stuff ....

Click to expand...

Thanks! Looks like I can get it from newegg too. That's a bonus because I'll be ordering some stuff from them soon anyway.

Justin Case said:

In terms of best thermal conductivity, you should follow CPFer yellow's advice and use thermal compound/paste (e.g., Arctic Alumina thermal compound) under the LED. Then use regular epoxy to glue the periphery of the LED to the heat sink to secure the emitter.

If you want to use thermal epoxy/adhesive, I would recommend Arctic Alumina thermal adhesive, not Arctic Silver thermal adhesive, as your general purpose thermal "glue". Arctic Silver is slightly capacitive, which could be bad if you used AS epoxy to pot any electronics like a driver.

Click to expand...

I wonder if it's any harder to keep from accidentally shorting the P7 base to the pill using the paste/epoxy method? That would be the only thing I'd be worried about (and just my luck).

most of these pastes and epoxies are technically non-conductive. I guess you could always test with a multimeter when you are done. Anybody know what the slug on p7 is electrically connected to?