Tactical use of flashlights?

pahl

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I just watched a video I downloaded from the Surefire web site. It shows a team of ELO's going in to rescue a hostage.

As they are going in some of them are flashing there lights on and off. Is this a tactic that is used to confuse anyone that they come up on as they are going through the building or is it something that is done just to look cool in the video?


BTW the video is preaty cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks,
 

chamenos

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its probably to familiarize themselves with the area they're entering, before turning the light off to prevent revealing their position any more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Size15's

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Light and move.
As far as I understand it, it is unusual for the lights to remain on for more than a second at a time. The whole idea is to gain a better idea of your environment and locate targets whilst confusing the targets as to your actual location.

When you see in the movies that cops go in with light constant-on, I've been lead to believe that this is unrealistic.

I understand the need to not discuss openly the tactics and operational methods of the various Special Forces in order to maximise the operational effectiveness of those in the SpecOp Community.

Al
 

ewick

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[ QUOTE ]
pahl said:
It shows a team of ELO's going in to rescue a hostage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did they find time to do that? You'd think they've been too busy with the release of their new album and all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sorry, I couldn't resist...
 

dano

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I guess this thread was bounced over from Cafe...I can't find the previous 180+ replies. Anyways, There's various ideas abound the use of a flashlight in a "tactical" situation.

A decent book is "Fight at Night" by Andy Stanford.

--dan
 

Roy

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ewick....ok, now I get it..Electric Light Or..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Joe Talmadge

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dano wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
A decent book is "Fight at Night" by Andy Stanford.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just an alternative view, while I really like several of Andy's books, I felt Fight at Night was so broad and general that it was really useless. You'd be much better off saving your money and reading some of the great resources on the web, or getting one of the reasonably good videos on the subject.

size15s wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I understand it, it is unusual for the lights to remain on for more than a second at a time. The whole idea is to gain a better idea of your environment and locate targets whilst confusing the targets as to your actual location.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the method Ken Good (and Surefire's associated instructors, and many other good instructor's) teaches. By all reports, Ken is awesome. On the other hand, it is important to note that there is not completely consensus on this issue. For example, I haven't taken Scott Reitz's low-light course yet, but I've heard he teaches standard Harries, and light on at all times (versus Ken's dynamic flashlight grips and "firefly" techniques). Scott is a guy who has been on countless dynamic entries, he's "seen the elephant" several times and come out the victor, and he teaches the elite teams in LAPD who apply his techniques every day in the most dangerous or circumstances. Scott's got his reasons for sticking with his techniques, and they are proven every day by guys who go into harm's way.

The important note here is that opinions differ even among the best and most experienced. Ken's way is one way, but there are others. Don't close your eyes to any of them until you hear the instructors out (especially the ones with proven experience).

Joe
 

Velcro

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[ QUOTE ]
Size15s said:I understand the need to not discuss openly the tactics and operational methods of the various Special Forces in order to maximise the operational effectiveness of those in the SpecOp Community.

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, those 'tactics and operational methods' can be seen on the Discovery Channel all the time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif
 

dano

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Joe has a point with Stanford's book. As an overview it's not too bad.

By all accounts, Good's stuff has been getting excellent critque's.

Scott Reitz also has an excellent rep. Not sure if he's still w/LAPD-SWAT, though...

Back on topic:

While working, I use the quick on/off technique, seems to work best for me...

--dan
 

pahl

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Great replies,
I really found the video interesting.
I wounder if any swat teams have ever ran into someone with a bigger flashlight then they had /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Not that it would really make a differance as I'm sure the training these type of guy's have is unreal.
 

Joe Talmadge

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Well, if you like those, Ken posted a bunch of videos for me at www.equipyou.com Scroll to the bottom of the page, hit 'Low Light Trianing Clips' in the lower left corner. Some great clips, including what to do, and what not to do. If you watch closely, even in the "what to do" clips, you can occasionally spot a mistake -- I spotted a guy backlighting his partner, right in the fatal funnel no less, for just a moment in one.

Scott's still training SWAT (Metro) at LAPD, or at least I'm pretty sure that's what he said. I trained with him a few months ago. Took an intermediate course, which was the toughest shooting I ever did, until I followed up with the advanced course! Low-light course in August, if everything works out.

Joe
 

PieThatCorner

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Scotty is still with Metro and still teaches a number of force option shooting courses for both LAPD and as part of a training cadre for other departments. I've had the priviledge of participating in his training and I can say that he's a no-nonsense firearms/tactics instructor that has seen his fair share of duty. He's a top notch quality guy and also serves as an expert for the District Attorney's Crimes Against Police Officers Prosecution Unit. His knowledge is by far and away a prime example of discipline and experience.

It's true that there are differing styles to low-light/no-light combat... it's best to keep an open mind when exposed to new or different techniques in this area. I find that Ken Good has many appropriate techniques that are sound and proven. Ultimately, there's more than one style and tactic to utilize for any operator that needs to stay adaptable and flexible.

-Jim
 
S

SgtThompson

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I am a Police Sgt. and incharge of our Tactial Team. The small flashes of light creat confusion and officer train to flash the light and remember whatthey see. You would be suprised how much you can train on retaining memory from a split second.
 

Size15's

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"Uhm, those 'tactics and operational methods' can be seen on the Discovery Channel all the time."

But how current are they? At least a few years out of date.
Perhaps you can ask about these methods at tacticalforums.com ?

Should I have knowledge of them, I will personally not discuss details of methods that I know are currently in use.

Respectfully,

Al
 

madecov

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I use the flash and move meathod while clearing buildings at night. A brief burst of light and them move to a another location.
keeps bad guys guessing and keeps myself from being "locked on" .

BTW, What's a ELO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
 

Blikbok

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Security through obscurity is never a sound practice.
In my experience with all sorts of secrets, from kindergarten through the professional workforce, almost all of them are dissapointingly obvious or useless once revealed. I'm pretty sure most of us would not be amazed by the things SWAT/SpecOps do. Much of their tremendous advantage is training, training, training at what they do.

Ever play flashlight tag? I'd pay to see CPF turn out for a game. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I did this all the time as a child, and it's great fun. It's tag in the dark. The searcher has to call the spotted runner by name, not as easy as it sounds. Some players go lightwieght and fast. Some try to navigate at night without light to avoid giving away their position. Some searchers bring the biggest light they can find, which slows them down, and lets everyone know where they are.

I've never done it, but I know people who play paintball in the dark. They've got homemade coaxial lights which predated the Surefire M900, M500 and A2 by years. Low light for covert navigation, highbeam for target identification, all momentary switched and mounted fast. I'd be shocked if there is anything SpecOps or SWAT does or did that they haven't tried or done.
 

ewick

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Off topic again here, but anybody ever read "The Code Book: The Evolution of Secrecy from Mary, Queen of Scots to Quantum Cryptography"? It sounds like a load, but it's pretty interesting.

In a nutshell, the book explains why good encryption algorithms should be made public, so their security can be validated, not just assumed. Just like open-source code. That way, there aren't any unexpected surprises when unexpected surprises can't be tolerated.

I think it's possible the same applies here.
 
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