HA Type III Just not Enough?

Well after doing some expansion of my flashlight collecton over the past few months, i have moved up to higher quality lights that all have Type III HA. However, i have noticed that it is nowhere near as tough as i expected it to be. I have tried two well respected brands with different colour anodizing, with the same result for each. On my zebralight that i have had for months, it looks very beat up with scratches and dings almost everywhere, and the same is about to happen to my loved Quark AA^2. i have only had the quark for around 4 weeks now and the anodizing on the clip is in pretty bad condiition (this could be type II however) the tailcap is getting there and the head already has a pretty bad ding/chip in it already. So am i asking to much out of this, or am i just beating the crap out of my lights without my knowing? Any and all input is appreciated.

SilentK said:

Well after doing some expansion of my flashlight collecton over the past few months, i have moved up to higher quality lights that all have Type III HA. However, i have noticed that it is nowhere near as tough as i expected it to be. I have tried two well respected brands with different colour anodizing, with the same result for each. On my zebralight that i have had for months, it looks very beat up with scratches and dings almost everywhere, and the same is about to happen to my loved Quark AA^2. i have only had the quark for around 4 weeks now and the anodizing on the clip is in pretty bad condiition (this could be type II however) the tailcap is getting there and the head already has a pretty bad ding/chip in it already. So am i asking to much out of this, or am i just beating the crap out of my lights without my knowing? Any and all input is appreciated.

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I would say that all Type III's are not created equal. If only everyone could do it like SF we would be set!

You also have to remember that Aluminum is a relatively soft metal and no type of anodize or coating will change that.

HA III is desirable around here because the standard used to be plain old anodized aluminum, the type found on m@glites .... but good HA III is much tougher, though certainly not indestructable. Here's an interesting thread about the difference: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/104334&pp=30

There is no invincible anodizing/coating; just as a diamond can shatter if it drops onto a hard surface at certain angles, if you put enough force between two very hard objects that contact at a very small point, something will give. This is why all the titanium flashlight makers have given up on anodizing - if you get a ding in bare metal, you can buff it out.

If you must have anodizing, ideally your flashlight should have bare titanium or stainless steel bezels at each end, which can be buffed or replaced. The two popular coating materials that are harder than HA III are tungsten carbide and titanium carbonitride (TiCN), but these are only marginally more immune to dings from drops.

you could try rhino-lining your lights? I think they sell something of a similar nature in paint cans (herculiner maybe?) ...tape it off and give it a dip? Might not shed heat at well, but if it ever gets banged up you can just recoat it! hmmm Maybe i'll give it a try with my solarforce L2

I have a few well used Surefires that look really bad. Has anyone had any good long term results using that Gun-Kote stuff? I remember reading about it a few years ago on here.

I think you need a SS or Ti light...:nana: Throw in some high grit sandpaper too.

If you want your light to look nice and perfect, it's best to keep it on your shelf, or in it's box at the back of your sock drawer.

If you want to use your lights, I suggest you go outside and skid it down the sidewalk a couple times. You'll feel much better about actually using a light then, and realize that aesthetics really make no difference in the function of the light.

Marduke said:

If you want your light to look nice and perfect, it's best to keep it on your shelf, or in it's box at the back of your sock drawer.

If you want to use your lights, I suggest you go outside and skid it down the sidewalk a couple times. You'll feel much better about actually using a light then, and realize that aesthetics really make no difference in the function of the light.

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+1

You should take pride in your light's battle scars!
-Bobby

Pristine unscratched lights are shelf queens.

I love a few scratches on mine, shows I actually use it

However, My SS LD01 has been on my keys for long enough now to destroy HAIII and it still looks new .

Marduke said:

If you want your light to look nice and perfect, it's best to keep it on your shelf, or in it's box at the back of your sock drawer.

If you want to use your lights, I suggest you go outside and skid it down the sidewalk a couple times. You'll feel much better about actually using a light then, and realize that aesthetics really make no difference in the function of the light.

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LOL!! great minds think alike!!

Your lucky i'm at work, otherwise my comment would have been posted before yours and you would have looked like the copy cat

Anodizing tends to wear on sharp edges, since the layer cannot form as well. Although anodizing is hard, it can be scratched by particularly hard metal objects; I managed to make a faint scratch in my L-mini II with some particularly hard tipped tweezers (for "testing" purposes...). Since the layer of aluminum oxide is very hard, it ends up being fairly brittle, and chips easily. Although anodizing is very hard (and made up of the same compound as sapphire), it does not have the same molecular structure and covalent bonds, so it isn't as hard. Additionally, some anodizing is actually a hydrate of aluminum oxide (the water molecules are incorporated in the aluminum oxide molecules), since steam can be used to seal the pores from anodizing. However, you can also seal the anodizing other ways which don't weaken the layer, which is what is done most of the time for real HAIII.

Hard anodizing is not a different type of layer from type II anodizing; it is simply a thicker layer of the same material. It is not indestructible, but should be a lot more scratch resistant than thinner Type II coating.

I managed to scratch my E1B the very day I got it. I was a bit upset (mainly because it was my fault), and the fact that it was brand new, but I got over it after I used it for a few days. It has since got a few more scratches from rubbing against my keys. It's no longer a big deal. Once the "trauma" of the first scratch is out of the way, scratches just don't really matter.

Well, I have been doing some reading about anodizing, and it looks like the type III is done at a lower temperature, freezing point of water, and higher current is applied than Type II. Also, the solution of sulfuric acid is weaker than the type II process, which is done at a higher temp with lower current applied. The anodize works deeper into the aluminum, and is more resistant to scratches than type II. Type III is the only sulfuric acid anodize process known as Hard Anodize (HA), so we CPF'ers who have called HA, Type III anodize, have not been wrong.

Bill

Get a G series and put an M60L or M60LL.

My old G2 spent some time in hell before retirement and still looked new.

I like the look of a well used light myself. :shrug:

I try to keep them nice when they're new...for a while, but after some use, I don't care about scratches and dings.

You should post pics of your scratched up HA lights HERE.

Bullzeyebill said:

Well, I have been doing some reading about anodizing, and it looks like the type III is done at a lower temperature, freezing point of water, and higher current is applied than Type II. Also, the solution of sulfuric acid is weaker than the type II process, which is done at a higher temp with lower current applied. The anodize works deeper into the aluminum, and is more resistant to scratches than type II. Type III is the only sulfuric acid anodize process known as Hard Anodize (HA), so we CPF'ers who have called HA, Type III anodize, have not been wrong.

Bill

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You are mostly correct. During anodizing, the acid is actually dissolving the aluminum oxide layer at the same time that it is being created, which is necessary for pore formation (which is necessary for anodizing to work). In order for anodizing to occur, this dissolving must be occurring at a slower rate than the formation of the layer. At higher temperatures, the acid dissolves the layer more quickly, which means that the layer will end up being thinner. By lowering the temperatures and using lower concentrations of acid, the layer is dissolved less, and a thicker layer can be created.
Hard anodizing is done with higher current densities, than type II, which in turn gives off more heat. Because of this, Type III anodizing requires more control of the process, since the acid has to be kept at a low temperature. This is why Type III anodizing is more expensive, and why it is harder to do.

I think its more of a problem if aluminium being relatively soft compared to the Anodizing itself. The ding is more of the alu being crushed underneath the layer of anodizing, which in turn shows up because there is nothing there anymore for the HA to be on top of.

but i'd rather a light that dents then one that shatters

Crenshaw

Crenshaw said:

I think its more of a problem if aluminium being relatively soft compared to the Anodizing itself. The ding is more of the alu being crushed underneath the layer of anodizing, which in turn shows up because there is nothing there anymore for the HA to be on top of.

but i'd rather a light that dents then one that shatters

Crenshaw

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Not really. Hard substances, such as sapphire lenses, are especially prone to shattering. The energy of a fall or impact is transferred first to the coating, not the base aluminum itself. This force causes the aluminum oxide to shatter before the remaining energy goes into denting the aluminum. You can chip the coating without denting the aluminum underneath it, although on a microscopic level the aluminum would have to be dented slightly, since the coatings are actually very thin.
In reality it is probably a little bit of both, but it definitely isn't all because of the softness of the aluminum, but because of the brittleness of the oxide layer.