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Thread: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

  1. #1

    Question True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Hello everybody!

    I wanna buy a flashlight with an SSC P7 LED, but im very indecisive, i don't know what to buy for the money

    For the money, I mean $30 to $50. I've read a lot of customer reviews for many many lamps, but I still don't know which flashlight has the SSC P7 at full or "near" full power.

    So what do you think, which flashlights has the brightest, whitest light? Please write some.

    Thanks for everyone!

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Read here for real out the front lumens as tested already by MrGman..
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=229135


    FYI: For $30 to $40 dollars you are getting a direct drive P7 light running on a single li-on cell that will make 400ish out the front lumens.

    If you want 500~650 real out the front lumens you need a Mag P7 or a Solarforce L900 P7 powered by IMR 18650 cells.

    If you want 750~850 real out the front lumens in a P7 light you need a Mag Hosts and so far only NiMH cells C or D can power it to those high levels asuming the build quality is great.

    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  3. #3

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    For less than 50 bucks look at Dealextreme sku18695 and sku13336. But if want serious good quality lights, you'll have to pay at least 60 bucks for a Q5 light.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Outdoors Fanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by randomlugia View Post
    For less than 50 bucks look at Dealextreme sku18695 and sku13336. But if want serious good quality lights, you'll have to pay at least 60 bucks for a Q5 light.
    Those are not going to put anything close to 900 out-the-front lumens...

  5. #5

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Thank you for the replies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoors Fanatic View Post
    Those are not going to put anything close to 900 out-the-front lumens...
    What's the bottleneck at these lamps? The electronics?

    And what if I build a flashlight without any electronics? Only the LED connected to the battery without any regulator circuit boards?

    I know that then the voltage level won't be constant and it will suddenly starts to dim, but I just need a true 900 lumen flashlight, no matter if the light dims by time

    Because then any lamp can be modded like this and then the LED will truly go at the maximum.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* John_Galt's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    You would only get 900 lumens if you had a bare LED. Add a reflector/optic, and a good rule of thumb is that you lose ~30% of the light emmitted from the LED. $30-40 won't get you anywhere near the quality that $60 in a Fenix/Nitecore/etc. Cree Q5/R2 light. Why do you need 900 lumens?
    I love my HDS/Ra Clicky... My only wish would be a 5th(accessible thru a 2click press) mode, and a 2AA tube.

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    Flashaholic* John_Galt's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by okarina View Post
    Thank you for the replies.




    What's the bottleneck at these lamps? The electronics?

    And what if I build a flashlight without any electronics? Only the LED connected to the battery without any regulator circuit boards?

    I know that then the voltage level won't be constant and it will suddenly starts to dim, but I just need a true 900 lumen flashlight, no matter if the light dims by time

    Because then any lamp can be modded like this and then the LED will truly go at the maximum.
    A combination of cheap/inferior electronics, poor LED selection, and poor heatsinking.
    I love my HDS/Ra Clicky... My only wish would be a 5th(accessible thru a 2click press) mode, and a 2AA tube.

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by okarina View Post
    Thank you for the replies.




    What's the bottleneck at these lamps? The electronics?

    And what if I build a flashlight without any electronics? Only the LED connected to the battery without any regulator circuit boards?

    I know that then the voltage level won't be constant and it will suddenly starts to dim, but I just need a true 900 lumen flashlight, no matter if the light dims by time

    Because then any lamp can be modded like this and then the LED will truly go at the maximum.
    Limiting factors can be:
    -Thermal cooling limitations of the host
    -Voltage sag of the cell used
    -Reflective/refractive losses
    -Driver efficiency
    -Switch quality

    You can DIY a true ~900 Lumen light, and I don't think it will cost you much at all. A bay area member cooked up a ~1100 Lumen light using a 2AA minimag, custom copper heatsink and a pair of 14500 cells. IIRC it was a direct drive design and it did over 900L with the bezel removed (somewhat less than that with the bezel on).

    You should be aware however that designs such as this will only emit that much light for a brief time (like 10 seconds), before the LED overheats, cell voltage sags and output drops. Theres also the questionable LED reliability in thermally driving an LED beyond what the host is capable of cooling.

    Personally... I really do not think you can reliably/economically achieve 900 Lumens from a single light with todays emitters. The closest I have seen is bigchellis' hot rodded SF-M6... but lights in this $ range are pushing $300-400, using custom machined parts/circuits. I think you can come close to your goal with a modded 3D mag, but even then I think the custom heatsinking will push you out of your price range.

    Have you considered two 400 Lumen lights strapped together? IMHO this would be more economically feasible. Gary measured a $40 MTE-DX light at ~450L upon cold start. But even that one dropped to ~370L as the LED warmed up.
    Last edited by kramer5150; 08-11-2009 at 10:45 AM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Galt View Post
    You would only get 900 lumens if you had a bare LED. Add a reflector/optic, and a good rule of thumb is that you lose ~30% of the light emmitted from the LED. $30-40 won't get you anywhere near the quality that $60 in a Fenix/Nitecore/etc. Cree Q5/R2 light. Why do you need 900 lumens?
    I just wanna buy the brightest flashlight for the money. But now i'm a bit disappointed.

    What do you think about that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=940QBkbPosw Isn't it 900 lumens?

  10. #10

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
    Limiting factors can be:
    -Thermal cooling limitations of the host
    -Voltage sag of the cell used
    -Reflective/refractive losses
    -Driver efficiency
    -Switch quality

    You can DIY a true ~900 Lumen light, and I don't think it will cost you much at all. A bay area member cooked up a ~1100 Lumen light using a 2AA minimag, custom copper heatsink and a pair of 14500 cells. IIRC it was a direct drive design and it did over 900L with the bezel removed (somewhat less than that with the bezel on).

    You should be aware however that designs such as this will only emit that much light for a brief time (like 10 seconds), before the LED overheats, cell voltage sags and output drops. Theres also the questionable LED reliability in thermally driving an LED beyond what the host is capable of cooling.

    Personally... I really do not think you can reliably/economically achieve 900 Lumens from a single light with todays emitters. The closest I have seen is bigchellis' hot rodded SF-M6... but lights in this $ range are pushing $300-400, using custom machined parts/circuits. I think you can come close to your goal with a modded 3D mag, but even then I think the custom heatsinking will push you out of your price range.

    Have you considered two 400 Lumen lights strapped together? IMHO this would be more economically feasible. Gary measured a $40 MTE-DX light at ~450L upon cold start. But even that one dropped to ~370L as the LED warmed up.
    Yeah, the heating is a very critical part of that.

    I thinked about that what if I build a flashlight and fill the top of it (where the LED is) with alcohol? Or some kind of fluid that doesn't conduct electricity but can be a good heat stuff?

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by okarina View Post
    I just wanna buy the brightest flashlight for the money. But now i'm a bit disappointed.

    What do you think about that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=940QBkbPosw Isn't it 900 lumens?
    No its not 900 Lumens. I have this Dorcy and its got a couple things going against it.

    -3AAA cells do not have the output capability to drive the P7 at the ~2.4A/3.7V it requires. Neither NiMH or Alkaline AAA are up to this task.

    -There is NO thermal conduction path in this light. Its just an LED wave soldered onto a fiberglass PCBA.

    -The aspheric focus design of this Dorcy places the LED deep into the bezel in order to focus the output. Quad-die emitters emit a TON of lumens to the side. So in this host he is loosing a TON of Lumens illuminating the inside walls of the bezel. So that light is being trapped and not making it out the front. Focusing aspheric designs such as this only emit that amount of light that illuminates the aspheric lens.

    When you factor all these items, he would be lucky to get 100-150 Lumens OTF of this host. FWIW... I bought this host form target with the intent of modding it with an XR-E, but its just not worth the investment.
    Last edited by kramer5150; 08-11-2009 at 10:58 AM.
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  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    No need to be disappointed... You are falling prey to the Lumen wars. The truth is there is FAR more to making a good flashlight than merely emitting Lumens.

    Also, I don't think you realize just how bright 200, 300, 400 Lumens OTF really is. (don;t sweat it... its a common noob mistake). If used improperly that much light can hinder your ability to see, prevent you from seeing what you are trying to see in the first place.
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  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by okarina View Post
    I thinked about that what if I build a flashlight and fill the top of it (where the LED is) with alcohol? Or some kind of fluid that doesn't conduct electricity but can be a good heat stuff?
    Liquid cooling probably wouldn't work, or at the very least it would be so complicated/complex a design... you have once again exceeded your $ budget.

    FWIW... I have never seen a liquid cooled DIY LED flashlight on CPF... so your idea would be the first that I am aware of.

    I can guarantee you that it won't work in this 3AAA dorcy. None of it is water tight... you would just end up flooding the 3AAA compartment.

    Your best bet is to sort through Garys Lumen measurements and pick a light from that list that meets your requirements. I can guarantee you however that 900L OTF from $50 is not currently available. You can however very easily obtain ~300-400 Lumens OTF in that price range.
    Last edited by kramer5150; 08-11-2009 at 11:15 AM.
    CLICK HERE for my flashlight reviews.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
    No need to be disappointed... You are falling prey to the Lumen wars. The truth is there is FAR more to making a good flashlight than merely emitting Lumens.

    Also, I don't think you realize just how bright 200, 300, 400 Lumens OTF really is. (don;t sweat it... its a common noob mistake). If used improperly that much light can hinder your ability to see, prevent you from seeing what you are trying to see in the first place.
    OK, i understand

    And what do you think, in the range of $30-50 which flashlights are the best? The most important thing is the brightness.

    After viewing and comparing the "beamshots" I found these ones the best to buy (but maybe I'm wrong ):
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19767
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24974
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13336
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14396

    I really don't know what to buy

  15. #15
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by okarina View Post
    OK, i understand

    And what do you think, in the range of $30-50 which flashlights are the best? The most important thing is the brightness.

    After viewing and comparing the "beamshots" I found these ones the best to buy (but maybe I'm wrong ):
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19767
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24974
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13336
    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14396

    I really don't know what to buy
    I for one would never recommend an ultrafire or trustfire from DX to a noob. I have had far too many of them arrive DOA (4 out of 6 so far). They can be made into great lights for the $$$, but it in my case required a complete tear down and rebuild part by part. Hardly an ideal scenario for a noob. You should also be aware that a DX RMA takes about 20 days turn around, so thats not an ideal noob-scenario either.

    I think you are FAR better off getting a 1 or 2AA light from fenix, eagletac, jetbeam, Olight...etc... from a well respected www retailer.

    I can speak from personal experience that the RC-N3-Q5 from shiningbeam is a very good value overall. The new one is brighter in 2AA format. The Fenix L1T-V2 is also a great light. Both of these have proven to be bombproof reliable lights that I EDC and use on the job, IMHO both are well worth $25-$50.

    I really think now is not the time for you to buy.... You need to do your research carefully first and try and narrow down the features you want. Try and assess what your values are. For me, it needs to be durable and reliable and that is high on my value scale (for example).

    Good Luck... oh and ....
    Last edited by kramer5150; 08-11-2009 at 11:46 AM.
    CLICK HERE for my flashlight reviews.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
    Limiting factors can be:
    -Thermal cooling limitations of the host
    -Voltage sag of the cell used
    -Reflective/refractive losses
    -Driver efficiency
    -Switch quality

    You can DIY a true ~900 Lumen light, and I don't think it will cost you much at all. A bay area member cooked up a ~1100 Lumen light using a 2AA minimag, custom copper heatsink and a pair of 14500 cells. IIRC it was a direct drive design and it did over 900L with the bezel removed (somewhat less than that with the bezel on).

    You should be aware however that designs such as this will only emit that much light for a brief time (like 10 seconds), before the LED overheats, cell voltage sags and output drops. Theres also the questionable LED reliability in thermally driving an LED beyond what the host is capable of cooling.

    Personally... I really do not think you can reliably/economically achieve 900 Lumens from a single light with todays emitters. The closest I have seen is bigchellis' hot rodded SF-M6... but lights in this $ range are pushing $300-400, using custom machined parts/circuits. I think you can come close to your goal with a modded 3D mag, but even then I think the custom heatsinking will push you out of your price range.

    Have you considered two 400 Lumen lights strapped together? IMHO this would be more economically feasible. Gary measured a $40 MTE-DX light at ~450L upon cold start. But even that one dropped to ~370L as the LED warmed up.

    That 1100 lumen mnimag mod lamp would put that out for far less than 1 second that it took to take the instaneous peak reading. It dropped into the 400 lumen range real quick.

    You can't make a 900 lumen direct drive P7 light for $50 bucks. some one would have done it already. First off you would need a 1300 lumen source and something to regulate about 14 watts of power. You aren't going to get there from where you are starting. You can buy a prepackaged P7 light but expect a real 450 lumens out the front from it.

    You want a real 900 lumen out the front light, not 700 but 900 then you need a dual or triple P7 that will actually put you in the 1100 to 1700 lumen range at over $300.00 at least. bigchelis can tell you what it costs for a full functional system. G.

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGman View Post
    That 1100 lumen mnimag mod lamp would put that out for far less than 1 second that it took to take the instaneous peak reading.....
    Oops... I was off by a time-factor of 10... OP... 1-second of output hardly seems like its worth the effort. LOL
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    The funny thing is lots of ppl think DX lights can be 900 lumen because the title says that and they try to prove it using a DMM

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: True 900 lumen SSC-P7 Flashlight or the closest to this

    Quote Originally Posted by vali View Post
    The funny thing is lots of ppl think DX lights can be 900 lumen because the title says that and they try to prove it using a DMM
    The other thing to consider is that Lumen output is not everything. If the design drives the LED with 2.4A... but the build quality and robustness is so unreliable you gain nothing in the long run.
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