Perhaps a bit of advice from a mature member?

I post this here in hopes of someone with more experience than myself being able to offer either some insight I may be missing, or some reassurance that I'm doing this correctly, and because I don't know where else I could ask this from people not directly affected by the situation.

If you come here to inflate a post count or to flame, just please back out and go to another thread.

If you want the abridged version, my girlfriend just unexpectedly asked to take a break from our relationship after 3.5 years. The wall of text below details our history and exactly what's happened. I thank you right now if you choose to continue to read

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I met my girlfriend (whome I'd have my fiance if money wasn't a problem) back during the holiday retail season in 2005. After some playful flirting each day, we finally started dating that following spring. As I'm what you would call a late bloomer, she has been my first everything. Literally.

Late 2006 we decided to move out of state and into an apartment with each other. No reason, just young, dumb, and really nothing better to do.

Most of the time we lived there, I felt like she wore the pants in the house. She made more money, paid more of the bills, and also enjoyed more of the money as well. Just to try and keep up, at one point I was working 3 jobs simultaneously to the tune of 60-70 hours a week, and I was still barely making due.

This tension ended up coming out in the form of fights and arguments on a too-frequent basis, and several times almost was the end of us. At one point, I even learned that she was dating my boss for about two weeks. She swears on a stack of bibles to this day that nothing physical happened, and knowing my ex-boss, I'm sure nothing did. Regardless, I still felt cheated upon, and after some reflection, I chose to take her back.

Since then we've moved back home. Although we no longer live together, things have been pretty good since moving back. She admits to have been treating me like crap a lot when we were out of state, and the relationship feels most like when we first started dating again. We still have our tiffs here and there, but what couple doesn't?

The last month or two, she's been really making sure I'm aware of how much she wants to live together again, which I understand and desire as well. This past Sunday we did our first walk through, and were talking about lining as many more walk throughs up as our schedules can handle.

Yesterday I called her on my break while I was eating lunch. I'm not exactly sure what was going on, but all of a sudden, it seemed to me she was yelling at me. I just calmly said "Whatever. I'll talk to you later." and hung up. She texts me saying some rather unkind things, to which I (incorrectly) replied "If that's how you want to be, don't bother calling me the rest of today."

Today she calls me twice at work to find out when I'd be done. I can tell there's something up.

I head over to her house after work, and take her for a ride. She now tells me she wants a break from the relationship, that she doesn't know what she wants, that she needs to figure herself out. Even though I knew something was up and my mind had jumped to this possibility, I still feel blindsided.

I thought everything was going so well, that we were going to get a place together, that we would start school this spring, I'd find better work so I could pay my debts off and marry her proper (which by the way she was always the one to first bring all the family/marriage/house/picket fence stuff up, so I don't get how *I* could be smothering her). Now I'm wondering what the hell happened. I understand I'm not the golden boyfriend to her 100% of the time, but I'm ALWAYS there for her no matter what when she needs me however she needs me, be it emotionally, financially, whatever-ally.

What she's told me so far is that she's felt this way for at least a month (so why are we looking at places together if you don't know?), she doesn't want this to be perminant, she still loves me, that she wants time to herself, that she wants to maybe hang out as friends confused and that she wants me to work on me too confused. The best that I can figure is that I've either catastrophically missed something here, or that her roommate (that I have some serious disliking for, which is reciprocated) planted some of this garbage in her head.

What I've told her so far is that I will wait for her as long as she needs me to, but I also will not wait *forever*, esp if I feel she's just messing with me to make me feel bad, and that as she's the one who wanted the space, I'll give her as much as she wants. If she wants to talk, I told her she'd have to call me or text me, so that I know I won't be intruding. That also gives me the chance to restrain myself from just blabbing on about something that she can't deal with at the moment, or that she wants to think more about. I also told her that I explicitly trust her, but that if she ends up going home or bed with some other guy, just call me and let me know. I'll bring her stuff over, I'll take my own, and we can cleanly break things off. I don't want that to happen, but I can at least be civil if it's going to.

The ***hole side of me wants to remind her that I took her back after she dated my (holy man)damn boss, but I really don't want to end up with her feeling forced into a relationship she may not be happy about because she feels guilty. That would just mean instead of us breaking up now, it'd be drawn out over X period of time instead, hurting us both more in the process. From some reading I've done, I think what I've offered her so far tonight was the best that I could do.

Am I going about things correctly, or have I screwed things up? I know there is no magic cure to the situation, but any insight or reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

I truly thank you for taking the time to read all this if you've made it this far.

Larry

What your girlfriend is going through is unfortunately the same problem many people go through when they have met someone they fall in love with enough to consider making things permanent. In a nutshell, you fall in love, everything feels right at first. However, because you've had limited life experience you think perhaps you'll be missing out on something better by staying with this person. You don't necessarily want to end things. Rather, you just want some time alone to develop yourself and also to look at what else is out there from the perspective of an unattached person. To me anyway this is what it sounds like she wants right now. And her suggestion of wanting you to work on you might be that she wants you to do the same.

I was young once (although I doubt anyone here can imagine that ). The first and really only time I fell in love many thoughts crossed my mind. First and foremost, I had spent most of my life up to that point on school. I really didn't have much going on outside of that. I didn't want to go straight from being a student to being somebody's significant other. I needed time to be myself. And she was pretty much the same. Truth is nothing was ever really discussed. Just going by feelings it was obvious if we had tried to be a couple then and there it wouldn't have worked (I was a sophomore in college and she was in her last year of high school, and neither of us had a dime to our names). Unfortunately, no arrangements were ever made for getting back together someday, even though I had hoped it might happen. I did acquire many interests beyond school. I did see what else was out there (not by dating but mostly but looking at the kinds of people friends or relatives were dating). In retrospect, comparing her to what's out there, boy was I stupid for letting her go. Really the only decision in my life I've ever regretted. But I couldn't have known that when I was 19 or 20 years old. Truth is I wasn't sure what I wanted at the time, so what happened was inevitable. I just wish I might have crossed paths with her ten years later. I would have had no doubts whatsoever.

I think what your girlfriend wants to do is to make sure if/when you're back together that she has no doubts. And she wants you to feel the same.
As contradictory as it sounds, that can never happen until you both get some time away from each other, however long it takes. In all honestly, if she were still the same person, I'd wait a lifetime for the person I mentioned earlier. So don't set any arbitrary time limits. If you're both meant to be it will eventually happen, whether it's in 6 months, 2 years, or even 20 years.

I'll also add another bit of info gained from my life experience. Most couples were never right for each other. They either stay together out of habit, or perhaps out of fear of not having someone. I've seen few who have met their soulmate. And I think one big reason there are so many incompatible couples has to do with our society making one feel worthless if they're not hooked up. So people hook up with someone, anyone, just so they can feel better about themselves. Don't be afraid of going it alone if it ever comes to that. I've always thought being alone was far better than settling. I really hope it all works out in the end for you two. But if it doesn't, then it meant you two were never right for each other in the first place. Maybe better you find that out now, before there are any commitments.

Disclaimer: I've been up now for around 20 hours, the last 10 hours thinking about this mess. So if my grammar or spelling or just thought flow is shoddy, please forgive me.

Firstly, thank you for your thoughtful reply :buddies:

I honestly have no plans of setting a time limit to how long I'll wait, I plan on just seeing how things are going. But I'm sorry, if it's getting to the point of "I feel this has been long enough" and someone else enters my life, I guess I'd ask her if she's made her mind up or not. If she still can't at that point, what would a guy do? Keep waiting and hope you have the future Mrs. Perfect, or risk missing out on the woman that will truly make you happy because you were still waiting?

While she was my first, I wasn't her's. So she has a better grasp on who/what else is out there than I do. Yes I do wonder, but I've been happy and content with the relationship so far.

That was one of the first obstacles to climb, was getting over the initial disdain of her talking of past relationships. I assume I think this way because I don't know any better, but after all the ups and crappy downs we've been through, I'm dumbfounded as to why this is going on.

I consider myself intelligent and socially adept enough that I've been running every possible reason through my head tonight trying to stay as clear-minded and objective as a guy in my shoes can be, even conceding and placing blame on myself (I could have done ___ better, I could have been more thoughtful, etc) and there's only three things that I can come up with (edit - three things that could bring her to wanting a break). As I said, I missed something, her roommate is working against me, or a third reason that out of respect for her I'll leave unmentioned.

Between "Did I say something wrong?" to "Did I not say something I was suppose to?" to "Did I not do something right?" and "Did I not do something?", those are the only three possibilities I can think of. If there is something else, then she'll have to key me in to what's going on.

Do you feel I'm going about this correctly? Telling her that she will have to contact me if she wants to talk? I just worry that by me not calling her, she'll feel like I'm an uncaring ***, but I worry more about allowing her the space she has asked for in the first place.

PM sent.

It may look complicated, it may feel complicated but it's not,
it's a simple math problem when you put the emotions aside.

You two had some attractions, had some love but there's a lot of mismatch on expectations vs reality. It's not a good fit, so all the small things starts to matter more & more.

The math is : love < issues
There's not enough love to overcome all the mismatch issues added together.

This is your golden opp. to walk out of the relationship & pull your self together & move on.

There's a few men/women that can pull off a relationship with men making less money, but not that many & the odds is against you big time. In those few lucky cases, the men must make up the shortage of funding in other areas, not an easy job by any means.

To find long term happiness, You'll need to walk away, heal the wound on your own, regroup & find a nice girl that makes less money. Allow enough dating time to make sure it's a good fit before moving in, go with the flow in terms of odds, not try to beat the odds like in the movies. Fairy tale love stories do happen, but at an odds of winning lottery. There's going to be some lucky ones, but rest assured it won't be you.

Nature & non mature guys all go through the same events.
The difference between the two is in the sequence of these events.

Not mature: Fall in love first & then try to make it fit.
Mature: Try to find the fit before developing love.

She may be slightly more mature than you as she is walking away first, realizing it's not a good fit, but obviously also struggles with it which is normal. I am not sure you can, depends on how strong you are, but you need to end it & move on.

Sometimes time apart helps people realize what they had. People say they are in love and indeed they may be in love but it's just young love or new love. True love IMO is love that stands the tests of time and the tests of life. I love my wife and I love her more today because we have gone through some trying times together. You have already been through some stuff so if you both can weather this storm then maybe you are meant to spend your lives together. Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

I wish I could say something comforting at this point, but once someone gets a doubt in their head it is VERY difficult to get it out no matter what they may say.

I would tell you some stories to explain this but that is time consuming and not that relevant. After the initial break in any relationship, it is very difficult to establish that trust and comfort again. One person is walking on eggshells so they don't get broken up with again, and the other doesn't have his/her heart in the relationship. This makes it very stressful and a single word can unleash a waterfall of built up angst.

It takes 2 very dedicated people to work through it and it takes cutting through the social BS of "what does she thing/what does he think?" You need to ask her face to face how she feels about you and where she wants this relationship to go. She will probably lie the first couple times to be polite, but you need to press her to be honest (you can read it in her face). I was raised to believe there are lots of fish in the sea and so i moved through women fast...my wife now had to sit me down and slap me and tell me I was going to marry her whether I liked it or not, her confidence in us was enough for me.

If only one person is confident in the relationship, it leaves them walking on eggshells and stringing it along while the other person is just waiting for an opportunity to get out. It hurts and it sucks being the confident one. My only advise would to be to have a real no BS heart to heart with her don't play the social games, don't beat around the bush, watch her body language as much as listening to her words. If there is something that needs to be communicated, it will be. Don't answer any questions till she answer's your's. Ask her what she wants from the relationship and if she tries to turn it on you don't answer as this could sway her decision and string it out longer. You want the truth, I am just worried its not going to be pleasant. I will pray that everything works out for the best and good luck.

It sounds like your girl friend is looking for an Alpha male and by your own admission, you ain't it.
This isn't something you can "fix" so you need to just walk away and cut your losses.


What you have gone through so far is exactly why young people shouldn't jump into marriage or even entertain the idea. It's going to sound hedonistic and I don't want to get into religious/moral differences, but a young man should be sowing his oats and getting experience with a variety of women so that he can better ascertain what personality types he likes and dislikes. You also need to figure out your place in the scheme of things. Without this experience it is very difficult, nigh impossible, to know whether or not you can hope to live happily with one person in a monogamous and faithful relationship. When you are still in school and trying to find a path in life is NOT the time to work out who you would like to spend the rest of your life with. No matter how a woman feels emotionally i.e. "in love", their primary survival instinct is to be protected and cared for. The specifics of this is different for every woman but in your case this is where you fall short in her eyes. She is worried/doubts your ability in this vital role. Don't take this assessment by me too harshly, just focus on your school and career and the rest will take care of itself.


*unedited!* LOL

I just woke up from a short nap. I need to get going to work here, just wanted to thank you all for your kind words. We'll see what the rest of today brings.

Ask her what she wants from the relationship

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He (or his GF really) already answered this: :

which by the way she was always the one to first bring all the family/marriage/house/picket fence stuff up,

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Answer: babies, like all women under 30. No need for a sit down and talk about it.

Sorry, but I'm going to be more blunt that the others here.

99.9% of women I've dated that have no had children are a varying degree of insanity depending on how close they are too child bearing age, and they typically act exactly like this. You say stuff about 'starting school' which tells me you are under 30, which makes long term dating a volatile affair. This is typically why I won't date women unless they have kids. That way I don't have a gun to my head and made to feel at every other glance that I'm being evaluated. That's what your GF is doing now.

What I've told her so far is that I will wait for her as long as she needs me to

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Coward (and I mean that in a supportive way).

Get off the nice guy pitty party. What your GF is doing is a classic 'provider evaluation oscillation' because she's really conflictated if she wants to be with you or not. Hence the inconsistent comments and moods. Don't go by what she says but what she does. Stop the male need for long, data oriented conversations.

What she really wants is for *YOU* to take the iniative. Less talk - more action and confidence. The fact you've had discussions about life planning doesn't mean much because it's obvious she's restless and the biological clock is ticking. 3 1/2 years is an eternity for women under the age of 30 with no kids, and if she's in this bracket your life is going to get much worse rather than better unless you start showing some more initiave and confidence. You either make a move at this point displaying some confidence, or I will almost guarantee you she'll start browsing again, even if she says she wont/ isn't. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I'm really looking for your best interest. It's obvious you're wasting a lot of brain cycles on this and stressing out. Not worth it.

blasterman said:

or I will almost guarantee you she'll start browsing again, even if she says she wont/ isn't.

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This is key - when a woman pulls the "I don't know if you're good enough now" routine, it usually means she's already "browsing". But that's not important now, what's important now is you and what you do with yourself.

She is reverting back to just-dating behavior, so you should as well. Make yourself hard to get in touch with, very little time to talk, not available at all on the weekends, no time to call back, maybe I can find an hour to do something next week, etc. She wants to project this lifestyle where you're no longer all that important because she's wondering and pondering, so let her know she'll have plenty of time for it since you'll be doing actual meaningful things; so much work, lots of meetings, out with friends yet again, etc.

This puts it in her lap if she's going to burn the bridge or not, and a woman chases/works a lot harder for that guy who is hard to pin down. "The only way to a woman's heart is along the path of torment. I know none other as sure."

although put a bit more abrasively I do agree to some extent with blasterman on most of the things he said, except one, don't take initiative without finding out her intent. She might not be into this relationship and randomly proposing might force her away, or into something she will never be fully into, causing you WAY more heartache down the road.

Now when/if you decide to talk to her, don't be whiny and beggy, let her know that you are running the conversation and don't let her sidetrack or steal it from you, but don't be an *** to her either. Its a delicate balance unfortunately. The worst thing you can do at this point is show that it is really bothering you, don't tell her you have been thinking about it for hours or days, or that you are stressed out by it, just ask her why she has been acting so crazy lately. If she goes on the defensive then she knows she has been acting crazy and she is looking for a fight, don't get sucked in! calmly walk away! If she opens up a little and or says "I don't know" thats your sign to proceed with pressing the issue!


edit: although effective the "I'm-a-badass-that-doesn't-have-time-for-you-anyway" technique is time consuming and may ultimately change you into that person. If you pursue that technique, you will get her back, but then the cycle starts again...she will only chase what she can't have, and then when you think you have her back she will start wandering again. I wouldn't recommend it as it scared me and hindered future healthy relationships.

Simplicity05 said:

I honestly have no plans of setting a time limit to how long I'll wait, I plan on just seeing how things are going. But I'm sorry, if it's getting to the point of "I feel this has been long enough" and someone else enters my life, I guess I'd ask her if she's made her mind up or not. If she still can't at that point, what would a guy do? Keep waiting and hope you have the future Mrs. Perfect, or risk missing out on the woman that will truly make you happy because you were still waiting?

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Honestly, if someone else comes into your life at some point, and it eventually leads to strong feelings for each other, then I think it's pretty obvious it's over with your old girlfriend. Even with me, I never put off the idea of falling in love with someone else. In my case, it just never happened. I just never met anyone else who made me feel that way. Truth is I rarely meet anyone I would even care to casually date. Waiting around can be a good strategy, but only if the person you're waiting around for is really worth it. Only you can make that judgement.

There's also some good advice in this thread about not marrying too young (IMO nobody should marry unless they're at least 30-it takes the long to get to know yourself), and also about not falling in love too fast. Ironically, with the person I mentioned earlier we were friends for most of my senior year in high school. I went to college next year, and didn't see her until the middle of my sophomore year. Only then did any feelings beyond friendship develop. And that's how I think it should always be. I'm honestly incapable of falling in love until I know someone a long time. Maybe that's why it's been hard (impossible actually) for me to have any long-term relationships. The other person might feel something sooner, sense that I feel nothing, and then move on, rather than continue to be satisfied being friends, and hope something more comes of it.

The desire to have kids may also have something to do with it as blasterman said. Most of the girls who I remember being the most moody in high school were also the ones who casually mentioned wanting kids when they got married. One girl I talked to in French class even already had a name picked out for her kid which I thought was totally ridiculous! And her moods were totally unpredictable. I actually liked her for a time, and I think the feeling was mutual. But I just couldn't deal with the mood swings, so I didn't persue anything beyond chatting with her in class. But yes, I think the desire to have kids tends to make many of the opposite sex moody and unpredictable. Ironically, the girl I ended up falling deeply in love with was less moody than me (this is probably a big reason I liked her so much). Then again, I'm pretty sure she had no desire for children (she knew I felt that way yet still pursued me). Point of fact, at 4'9" and 75 pounds having children likely wouldn't have worked out for her anyway. But honestly, she never seemed the type.

Anyway, the point of my rambling on here is that at some point in your life you need to ask yourself whether or not you want children, and if not, then make sure you're with someone who feels likewise. Nothing can sour a relationship sooner than if one party wants kids and the other doesn't, or if one wants them sooner rather than later (might be the case with your girlfriend).

The only thing I would like to add is that you should expect this to go further as a on/off on/off relationship...ending off. It will probably seem the more you try the further she moves from you. But you have to try...it`s just human nature.

The recovery is often long and hard...Don`t listen to romantic music...don`t eat at the places you all used to go...try to avoid things that remind you of her...and time...only time...takes the pain away...unless you meet another gal. But don`t count on it any time soon...some people wait a life time. And some just die alone.

But your young...

Guys,
after 4 years with this woman, Larry has already played his hand.
That's why she's "browsing"! ..and wants to "take a break".
Jeesus, it's his FIRST relationship!

I'm frankly surprised it has lasted this long. NO offense to Larry! If she would be completely honest, she would admit that she knew some time ago that this relationship wasn't going to end in marriage/happily ever after. Think of the odds! Trying to advise Larry to be something he's not is poor advise indeed. It is doing neither one of them any favors by trying to encourage them to work things out. Time apart will be the final arbiter and SHE knows this, that's why she suggested it. Who knows, after a year or two and dating other people things could rekindle. Probably not though. Look at the bright side, PLENTY of SINGLE women! :devil:

well i'm trying not be be so cynical towards relationships and such, but breakups aren't so bad buddies take you out and buy you drinks and dances, female friends set you up with super-hot blind dates that are WAY outta your league but you try anyway, and the thrill of the hunt is always exciting. It sucks and it hurts and you spend a long time justifying that you couldn't have done anything to save it and that it just wasn't "meant to be"

but his relationship isn't over yet! quit giving up on him so early! from the tone of his post it looks like he wants to salvage the relationship instead of abandoning it. (a noble/novel idea) If he does not want to save it, then he would not have asked for advise, he would have called her, dumped her, and went on about his day. So in that vein I say give it a whirl. This "meant to be" is BS, if you want her, get her. You can't wait for life to happen to you, thats just lazy.

To me it sounds like you have a hard time of giving up.
Just take a deep breath and quit when the damage is still minimal.
Take your time, enjoy your life, world is not going to end at 2010.
Love and money, if theres enough love money shouldn't be even mentioned, money does make your life easier though.

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Now is your chance, take it and save yourself a load of grief. If she takes this road to get what she wants from you then she will do it over and over and over and over and over and over. Save yourself now.

LOL! OMG! What an interesting thread! What an assortment of replies!

Simplicity05,

I don't know you. I don't know your girlfriend. So, I'm only going by what you have told me in your posts in this thread. So, take what I say regarding your particular situation with a grain or two of salt.

However . . .

A lot of red flags dropped for me when I was reading your story. Right away, the big one is that you felt you had to work three jobs, and that you felt your woman "wore the pants" in the household. And I have a bad feeling about what exactly you might mean by saying that she "also enjoyed more of the money as well."

Did she go out to eat without you, being unwilling to pay your way? Did she spend a lot of money on stuff for her personally? I mean, I got a vibe that her enjoyment did not translate to YOUR enjoyment at all. Au contraire, n'est pas? Because you felt the need to work three jobs.

Red warning light! Danger! Danger!

Money issues are power issues, as are "pants" and who wears them. And relationship power issues and intimacy and trust don't mix well.

Next, you tell me that there was a lot of tension, and arguments, and that she "dated" your freaking boss for crying out loud!

And then you say you decided to "take her back." Did she ASK to be taken back? Did SHE tell you about dating your boss or did you find out or what? How did your learn about that?

OK, so you move back but live separately and then she starts pushing the living together thing, and you say she's talked about marriage--or you both have talked about marriage, and a home and a family and etc.--and you've gone on walk throughs.

Fine. I follow.

But, then, you tell me that you call her on your break and that

I'm not exactly sure what was going on, but all of a sudden, it seemed to me she was yelling at me. I just calmly said "Whatever. I'll talk to you later." and hung up. She texts me saying some rather unkind things, to which I (incorrectly) replied "If that's how you want to be, don't bother calling me the rest of today."

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Bad. Really bad. Red light. Warning. Danger. Abort.

WTF?

OK, first, no one just starts yelling at someone out of the blue for no reason . . .

errr. Wait. Unless it's me posting to one of LuxLuthor's threads. Damn! :devil: j/k.

But seriously, while it theoretically can happen, it's rare. Most of the time there are plenty of conversational cues and clues, and past history. And you just missed all of them. Bad sign. Very not-good. It makes me have serious doubts about all of the information you have given me, especially your assessment that the relationship after you two moved back was good and most like it was at first. I'm betting she didn't feel that way.

And I know you feel blind-sided by her wanting to take time out from the relationship, but I would bet good money on the fact that you missed a lot of stuff that was all telling you what was coming.

This is all OK, though. It takes time and effort to learn this stuff. Women are a lifetime study that you will never graduate from, never achieve a final grade with. It never ends.

The most important thing you need to know about this thread, right now, though is this:

ALL YOUR ADVICE IS COMING FROM MEN.

Never take advice from men about women! All that talk about how women are child-bearing-wanting-desiring irrational monsters or what-not. Just toss it! We don't know DIDLY about women. Not me, not you, not jtr, not NOBODY. Don't presume.

What I (and other men) can possibly tell you about here, though, is love, and relationships.

Here are my pebbles of wisdom that you may or may not feel are worth digging in the pig excrement to pick up (LOL!)

1. Love and trust and respect. You simply MUST have these in the relationship. Down deep. At its core. Take some time to imagine if you won the "relationship lottery". Imagine your "soul mate". That women who is lover, companion, friend, playmate, your everything. Not someone with whom you have everything in common, mind you. Not someone who agrees with everything you say or think. Not someone who never irritates you. No. But that someone whom you would trust with your life, your soul. That woman who you could tell anything to. With whom you want to share everything you are--your dreams, hopes, fears--everything, holding back nothing, hiding nothing. You're just looking for the feeling of this person, this imaginary relationship. Spend a good amount of time visualizing this, thinking about this.

Because, from what I can tell, you and your girlfriend have serious issues here. You didn't fully forgive her for dating your ex-boss, and she should never have let money issues come between you. She should have gone out of her way to make them insignificant, to ease your feelings about them, even if your feelings were "irrational". It's just a really bad sign that she didn't, that you did feel this way. That it was an issue.

2. Heart. Listen carefully: there are no rules, there is no list, there are no procedures. NO ONE CAN ADVISE YOU IN THIS WAY. Do not have a "plan" on how to proceed, how to act. Don't "play" hard-to-get. Don't have a strategy. These things are of the mind, and where you need to be is the heart. The mind says "I will wait for as long as it takes". But the heart knows no such plans, such calculations. The heart just hurts. The heart longs. Stay with that. Just be with that. Pain. Loss. Confusion. Hurt. Longing. Despair. DON'T TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE YOU WENT WRONG. Don't play the mind games with yourself. Just don't. And if you find yourself spinning off again, madly caught up in your thoughts, then STOP, and return to the moment, to the pain, to the heart. You never finished even with her dating your boss. There is so much baggage, so much that has been stored up in every cell of your body. Let it go. Experience it. Ignore the mind. Do nothing except what you need to do, and what will bring you some small comfort. Work. Eat. Watch TV. Read. Go out with friends. But, do not talk about your relationship. Do not ask for advice. If it comes up, just say she's taking time off and you don't know why. If you want to talk about anything, then talk about your feelings. But don't calculate.

Being a man means, among other things, being able to lie down on this icy couch, to just sit with this insecurity, to stay calmly in this hell and let it permeate you.

Be a man, and honor your heart. And if an action wells up out of this; if an action surges up that you are compelled to follow, then so be it. Go with it. But avoid the plans and tricks and deceits of the calculating mind at all costs at this point. It will not steer you right. You may end up marrying this woman who is all wrong for you. Or you may end up getting all prideful and self-righteous that you ditch a woman who IS right for you. As Sting says, "Let your Soul guide you."

3. Free-will. If she wants out, LET HER THE HELL OUT. Pack her stuff for her. Whatever. But if she can't, of her own free-will, be in the relationship, then under no circumstances play any card to apply any kind of influence on her. Influence MUST NOT come from your intentions and plans at this point. You can not exert force from within the circle. Let her go. And again, do not have a mental plan about how you will or won't call her, or about how long it will be before you say you won't wait. No. But, if your heart tells you that you need to respect her space and you shouldn't call her, then don't let your mind trick you into breaking that.

Finally, I'm going to give you advice on what to do. Just remember that I told you above not to listen to any advice like what I am about to give you.

Let it go. Walk away.

And in the future never talk casually about marriage and kids and a home. Never. None of that whimpy BS. If you want her for your lifetime companion, then get down on one knee and propose. If she's worth that, then she's worth going out on a limb for. One of the most intense things I ever did, personally.

But, please just ignore the above two paragraphs.

Oh, and one more thing:

Nothing is "meant to be" but what you decide is meant to be, and sometimes not even that.

To say "if it's meant to be, it will work out" is simply ABSURD!

Don't be a passenger in your own life. This is passenger "destiny" mentality crap.

Be a driver.

Nothing is meant to be. And nothing is NOT meant to be. Unless you decide it.