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Thread: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

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    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I think he's a great director and this looks like it will be an amazing film. I'm excited about seeing it.

    I noticed that the trailer note reads,

    "PS: Sadly, without the polarised (mispelled) glasses, the trailer will only appear in 2D"

    Well, I have polarized glasses left over from the 3D movie "Up" and it doesn't make any difference whether you have them or not for viewing the trailer. If it's not dual projected on a screen or you have a display capable of producing 3D images it's not going to work regardless.



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    Flashaholic* half-watt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    The CGI/CGA looks a lot like some of the video games my adult son plays (e.g., one called "Crysis" (sic) - or something to that effect).

    It must be close to 30 years ago that a movie with Albert Finney and Susan Dey was made, called "Looker" (i hope that i'm remembering the correct movie), based upon a Michael Creighton book or screen play (not sure which; i think Creighton also directed it, IIRC). Anyways, one small aspect of the movie was a device which also had application for eliminating the need for human actors in movies - though it was used for other purposes in the movie.

    Anyways, it's quite impressive what can be done with CGI/CGA, especially when humans are filmed first going through the motions. However, one aspect that appears to still be lacking (maybe i have just missed it???) is the degree of pathos or emotion that can be seen in actual human faces. Now, maybe movies such as "Avatar" don't require such considering both the plot and the intended audience. At this point, this lack of minute detail may limit the application.

    Finally, I think that there is at least one reason (probably more, but for the purposes of this post one will suffice) why live plays are still popular. Plays are closer to reality, as far as the story is concerned, than Movies/TV. You are there with the actors living, so to speak, the story - immersed, both in time and space, there with the actors and viewing the story as it unfolds in real-time. Movies and TV are at least one step removed, at least in space, from this aspect present in stage plays (hence, techniques such as surround sound, 3D, etc. in movies). CGI/CGA is yet [much] further removed - especially when alien worlds and creatures are involved. Sure, cameras can zoom in on actors in TV and movies, whereas we view actors from a greater distance when they are on a stage (probably wouldn't see that drop of sweat on forming and dripping down on Dr. Edgemare's face in that scene from "Total Recall" if it were a stage play), but overall, the "reality" effect is lessened when a screen is substituted for a stage, IMO.

    As we remove ourselves further from "reality", we, naturally enough, find fewer and fewer points of similarity of experience, and so find it more difficult to relate to the story.

    Anyways, 'nuff said. That's my two shekels on a pretty impressive movie trailer. Hope y'all enjoy it and that it is a successful endeavor for Cameron.

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    Flashaholic* Flashanator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    The jungles look absolutely stunning!!!

    Looks like there was floating islands of rock, even saw water falls on them.



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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    "PS: Sadly, without the polarised (mispelled) glasses, the trailer will only appear in 2D"

    Well, I have polarized glasses left over from the 3D movie "Up" and it doesn't make any difference whether you have them or not for viewing the trailer. If it's not dual projected on a screen or you have a display capable of producing 3D images it's not going to work regardless.
    That's all that "old English" way of spelling where they never seem to be able to use a "Z". They can't quite come to terms with having lost the Empire, so they hang onto their "S."

    The writeup I linked, and comments below underscore that this is a whole new technology, using unique polarizing lenses. I don't even think this is the same that was used for "Up," but I'm not 100% sure.

    In any case, the trailer was not made in 3D. Maybe they should start selling glasses, and do trailers in 3D? You can read what movie theater owners have said after seeing an actual 20 min presentation.

    Comments at bottom of my thread do correctly claim that plot and other fundamentals will still always be the most important aspects of any movie, however it is dressed up in special/3D effects.

    I don't think I would call this the movie revolution akin to B&W==>Color that they speculate.

    For that level of a revolution, I'm waiting for a true holographic theater presentation system, which will require a new design with lasers, mirrors, and cameras. You wouldn't need any glasses, and they should give the audience seats that quietly swivel 360 degrees.

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    Enlightened AbleArcher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    That's all that "old English" way of spelling where they never seem to be able to use a "Z". They can't quite come to terms with having lost the Empire, so they hang onto their "S."
    Actually, American English is slightly closer to the Elizabethan 'spell as spoken' English, so technically you use "old English" whereas we use a more modern derivation. And being new here I don't want to annoy anyone but I find the notion that everyone in the UK is upset at having "lost the Empire" a little offensive. If it was meant in jest and I just didn't pick up on it then I apologise / apologize

    Back on topic, the trailer does look good - reminds me a lot of Halo. 3D films have obviously been around for a long time so it will be interesting to see if this one really does break any boundaries. The test will be if it stands up as a 2D film first, with the 3D just adding to the experience.

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    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I don't know if it's different either. I've seen, I think, every 3D except 3D Harry Potter and this 3D X games that just came out. I couldn't believe what I was seeing the first time. It was so amazing to "see" (decipher) an object out over the crowd.

    It was funny when we noticed little kids reaching out during Monsters and Aliens. The asteroids were cool. When they come from behind you that's really unusual. In G-Force some flying critter flew over my left shoulder and scared the shazam out of me and I said so. I don't think I actually said, "shazam!" outloud. Could have been something else.
    Last edited by Icebreak; 08-22-2009 at 05:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I recall seeing Polar Express in IMAX / 3D twice. The effect was stunning and seamless with CGI characters. The film sold out for months.

    I was excited about Avatar, until I saw the trailer. Cheesy, big eyed aliens from Disney meant to draw empathy from the audience, and terran military units obviously borrowed from Peter Jackson's failed Halo project.

    Sorry to be so negative, but Cameron is obviously a bit stuck on himself. He gets a new GF with each flick he directs, so in that respect I'm willing to help. To bad we're not going to see something really cool brought to the big screen like 'Ringworld' or something. Instead we get 'Dances with Wolves' on Dagobah.

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    Flashaholic* Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    a friend of mine won tickets to, erm, either the preview of the preview, or something, he was VERY excited about it.

    Crenshaw

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    It does seem sort of like Crysis as far as how the jungles look, but I would think that this movie was rendered using ray tracing, and not with traditional polygons like Crysis and all other current video games.
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    Flashaholic* HoopleHead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I've been stoked for this for a while now! Can't wait.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    not with traditional polygons like Crysis and all other current video games
    Actually, it's all similiar technology. All CGI objects are constructed of basic primitives, but it's movement and texture that makes things look real.

    Jurassic Park solved the problem with movement and 'bend and squish' of CGI rendered animals. Lord of the Rings / Gollum was the next revolution with the translucency algorithms used to make skin textures look real. Video games have to rely on pre-built engines, otherwise they crawl.

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    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Saw the non-3D trailer in the Cinema Saturday night. We went to see the Tarantino flick. The Avatar looked interesting enough to go see. There seemed to be some broad use of fluorescent colors. This will be, for me, one of those deals where I don't know anything about it, won't make the effort to find out anything about it and just see how it goes.

    I knew nothing about GI Joe except for that when I was a kid I had no desire to have one. 007 briefcase and gun and stuff heck yes. The movie was quite enjoyable. Cool vehicles and equipment plus...A GIRL FIGHT!

    Avatar will be interesting.
    The oldtimers are forever bound to the universe of flashlights. They reside just above the torch lit stratosphere where the good photons pass by. As these oldtimers locomote on their appointed ways, occasionally an unusual glimmer from below catches their attention.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    Actually, it's all similiar technology. All CGI objects are constructed of basic primitives, but it's movement and texture that makes things look real.

    Jurassic Park solved the problem with movement and 'bend and squish' of CGI rendered animals. Lord of the Rings / Gollum was the next revolution with the translucency algorithms used to make skin textures look real. Video games have to rely on pre-built engines, otherwise they crawl.
    No, ray tracing is different from how video games render objects. With ray tracing, the images are created by determining how light is scattered off of objects, which is how we see objects in everyday life. Apparently the movie "Cars" was done with Ray tracing, but I am unable to find what other movies were.
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    Flashaholic* elgarak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Does anyone else feel both overwhelmed and disappointed by this new trailer?

    From a technical viewpoint, the new trailer is stunning -- beautiful scenery, much better CGI.

    But from what we can glean into the writing and the story, the movie appears abysmal. Humanoid, English-speaking aliens, close to nature, fighting for their home, with a love story between an alien/native and a human? Now, how often have we seen that story?

    It would have been so much cooler and satisfying if the aliens would have been truly alien, no human-like body, no language, no common ground between aliens and humans.

    There's of course the hope (mostly by the studios, I'm afraid) that the 3D presentation, not possible at home, will save theaters. I am pessimistic that this will work. In my experience, good movies (I mean really good ones -- the ones you call great) do not rely on such technological gimmicks. Sure, I prefer if movies are experienced with the real deal, big screens, loud surround sound, correct aspect ratio, uncut -- but there are a few movies, the ones I consider the best ever, which I can watch and enjoy even if all those things are not there. Movies with an engaging story, told in a way that you forget watching a movie, even if it's on TV, in fullscreen, mono, edited and with commercial breaks.

    "Avatar" does not seem to belong in this category.

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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    It seems to me you are making a lame comment for no good reason.

    It appears abysmal? Doesn't belong in [your judgemental] category?

    You have NEVER been able to judge any movie based on a trailer. Period! Trailers exist for the sole pupose of creating buzz, and increasing awareness of a movie.

    Obviously, like any movie it will stand on the basics. 3D has never been done well, and he is using filming equipment that has never existed before, so it might also be a mind blowing effect. Also obviously, you did not bother to read the dismissive comments Cameron himself made about the 3D effect in my OP link.

    Let's see...James Cameron....does he have any credibility that entitles us to give him the benefit of the doubt?

    • Titanic
    • Terminator
    • Terminator 2
    • Terminator 3
    • Rambo First Blood
    • Aliens
    • The Abyss
    • True Lies
    • Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
    • Dark Angel

    I guess you are right. All his movies and everythihg about him sucks.

    As far as humanoid based aliens, almost every blockbuster sci-fi film I can think of humanizes the alien(s) to some degree--some more than others. With a story of a human remotely controlling an avatar alien body, it makes perfect sense to have one that is relateable to the human and the audience.

    Maybe you prefer they remotely control a Jabba The Hutt sliming around? Oh wait. He has humanoid eyes, nose, mouth and two arms. Scratch that idea.


    Last edited by LuxLuthor; 11-01-2009 at 12:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    ... polarised (mispelled)
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    That's all that "old English" way of spelling
    Quote Originally Posted by AbleArcher View Post
    ... American English is slightly closer to the Elizabethan 'spell as spoken' English
    I'm surprised nobody pointed out that while "polarised" can be spelled with a 's' or 'z' depending on English or US convention, "mispelled" was itself misspelled there, lol.
    Resistance is futile...

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    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Hello. Post blown away.

    Crap. Not inspired to redo it. I've seen the 3D version in theaters. Not spectacular to me but I'll go see the movie. It's definitely pleasing to the eye. I believe they are attempting to bring the spectacular effect of an animation like Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs to a film based motion picture. Hopefully it will be available in 52' x 72' format. IMAX 3D is down right immersive and at times, atmospheric. In the trailer there was a hint that the humans were up to so no good beyond just manifest destiny.
    Last edited by Icebreak; 11-01-2009 at 04:01 PM. Reason: ' for "
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    Flashaholic* PhantomPhoton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Not sure about the movie yet but I'll likely go see it. Thanks for the link Lux... 1080p goodness. mmmmmm.
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    *Flashaholic* Sgt. LED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I'll see it based on how it looks visually in the trailer.
    However, the good and nature loving alien VS evil military human thing is a bit worn and heavy. I must admit I hated Ewoks but liked ALL of Star Wars, almost, but that's TOO off topic.

    It'll get my money so my opinon means nothing LOL!

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    We have an IMAX where I work and it will be here!

    There is no 3D like the IMAX format. We saw Under the Sea last winter and it was amazing.
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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Last edited by LuxLuthor; 12-11-2009 at 12:10 AM.

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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    OK, I have just decided to travel 45 miles to the nearest IMAX theater just to see this movie. I would never have considered that with any movie.

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    Flashaholic* csshih's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    report back quickly!

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Nearest IMAX to me is about 165 miles Sure would like to see it there but will probably just go to the local T here on opening day.
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    Flashaholic* LEDninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I only use one eye at a time so 3D is a problem for me. Hope the story is good enough to watch if I can find it in 2D.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    where they never seem to be able to use a "Z". They can't quite come to terms with having lost the Empire, so they hang onto their "S."
    Not so much that we want to hang onto our ‘S’, more likely that we know how to speak a correctly spelled word and therefore don’t feel we need to simplify the spelling just so’s we can understand how to pronounce it.

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    Flashaholic* HoopleHead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I can already say I'm going to see it a minimum twice on IMAX.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Hope the story is good enough to watch if I can find it in 2D.
    Don't count on it - still wondering if Kevin Costner is going to make an appearance in the film with a heard of space buffalo.

    While technically Cameron has always been on the ball, he's about as deep as Michael Bay.

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